Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Spikes-To shoot or not to shoot?

This has always been a touchy subject around our own campfire, and it came up last weekend. Just wanted to see what you guys thought about it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Red there are spikes and then there are spikes. I am assuming you are talking about whitetail deer. That is what I know about if you are talking about something else I don't know.

If the spikes are shorter than the ears then most likely it was a late fawn and just didn't have time to grow a decent set of antlers for the first time.

If the spikes are longer than the ears and especially if they turn over instead of just going straight up it is a cull deer. It will never have a good head. Will have more points for the second set but still will never be good. You have seen the twisty 5s and 7s. Those were goat horn spikes the first time.

This is assuming of course that we are not in the middle of a drougth or on very poor range.

BCR

Tex, I think the subject has been pretty much resolved by one of the universities (LSU?) that most spikes are just late season births.

Let 'em walk.

SS

Studies and certified experts disagree.

To me, it depends on the situation. In an unmanaged area, where there are too many deer...it doesn't make sense to shoot 'em...because they may be bucks with good potential but they haven't had enough nutrition.

It's MUCH more important to get the deer population within the carrying capacity of the range (so the each individual has enough to eat), and to get the buck/doe ratio somewhere near normal. Usually, this means harvesting LOTS of does.

On well managed range, where the deer have proper nutrition, if a buck isn't more than a spike at 18 months, he should be taken. BUT, this assumes that he has had adequate nutrition! And taking spikes to improve the genetics of a herd makes no sense until step 1 and step 2 are complete: (1) reduce the deer density and (2) "normalize" the buck to doe ratio.

On one of the places I hunted in NY last month, there's a fully mature spike my friend and his buddies have been seeing for 3 years or more. Supposedly has a really dark coat, too. That's the trophy I wanted -- I mean, everyone has those nice "normal" deer. No dice, though...

John: I agree...if it's a mature deer, it's a trophy in my book! Jim

"Studies and certified experts disagree. To me, it depends on the situation."

I'd have to agree with that. A buddy recently took a game management course. He controls over a sq. mi. of land now, and a UGA wildlife biologist said that spikes, once thought to be deficient genetically, now appear to be about as capable of producing good racks later in life as other deer. Kinda' "late bloomers" as it were? Anyway, my buddy has followed his advice, and planted as much clover and honeysuckle, etc. as he could, trying to provide for each segment of the season so they'll have plenty of food and nutrients, and that's working pretty darn good.

He's got one of those "game cams" you attach to a tree that takes pix of deer, triggered by motion, and the pics he's been getting show a decided improvement in antler size and the deer's conformation and general condition. This is microcosmic evidence garnered over several years now.

Here in Ga., the complication is that in many places, we've got so dang many deer that there's a limit of 12, only 2 of which can be bucks. What's THAT tell you?

I used to be a trophy hunter, and thoroughly enjoyed every minute. Hunted what was probably one of the biggest bodied and biggest racked deer in Ga. for 3 years running, almost to the exclusivity of all others. Would only take a shot if it was the last minutes of light, and the deer was nice. You HAVE to let a lot of nice deer go by if you're hunting a REALLY big one.
I never did get that ol' Bigfooted one, but he really taught me how to hunt deer, bucks, and BIG bucks - they're really different techniques.

Now, with the abundance of deer, and seeing a whole heard virtually wiped out from an epidemic of blue tongue, made possible because the timber companies wouldn't rent their hunting rights out then due to concerns (understandable) about lawsuits. I also lost a customer, a very nice lady who left orphaned a daughter and a son, when she lost control of her car on the way to take her daughter to school and died in the crash. Hard to let them pass after these type things, so nowadays, I mostly shoot whatever comes out, unless I have good reason to believe I can do better, or get more than one at a time.

I know a lot of folks think that would be awfully nice, and surely the venison is, but in reality, I miss having to hunt hard to get a nice one. Nowadays, I feel a virtual DUTY to take all I can. Just wish I got "out there" more these days, even if it's not the same kind of challenge it used to be. I could put up a stand in my back yard, literally, and take one in the little branch that runs by it, but .... I just can't bring myself to go THAT far. Saw 3 in the yard last week. They can be awfully hard on the wife's flowers this time of year! She may MAKE me do something if it goes beyond a certain point.

What to take and when to take them varies widely, according to the conditions and population and food supply and all sorts of variables. Apparently, according to what I've been able to glean of it, spikes aren't "necessarily" geneticly inferior, but that's just heresay, so ..... I guess it's all up to us as individuals and our consciences, and our best understandings of what the conditions and possibilities are in our respective areas. This is probably why you hafta' go to college to figure all this out, and gather data, etc.

Darn good subject, though. Just look at what my buddy has been able to do on his little square of land. It CAN make a difference, but it takes a lot more than simply shooting or not shooting spikes. BTW, he only shoots does or BIG racks, and lets everything else pass. It's working for him in our area. Your mileage may vary wherever you are, though. Local wildlife guys are your best bet for the best info on your region, I think.

Around my area, a spike would be a young 2 yr. old bull moose. I'd shoot one everytime.

Well said SouthTexas.

Spikes can become good deer, but on average they are going to be smaller than branch horned yearlings (1.5 years old)...that according to research. I fully agree that steps 1 and 2 mentioned above must be done before killing spikes can make a difference. And not every place should practice culling spikes.

My wife shot a spike this year, but it wasn't just a spike, it was a two pointer that looked like it should have had other points off the main beam, because it was curved out and around and fairly nice diameter, but just the main beams, no points. The body of the deer wass nice sized, and all the good ole boys around here thought it was for sure a 2.5 year old. Tasted good, and the rack makes a nice towel hanger.

I guess I am just a meat hunter. A younger deer is tastier and tenderer. I don't purposely look for spikes, but if the shot is there and the deer aren't moving, heck, take the shot. I shoot does too. It is important to the managing of the herd to harvest the does.

In a club I was a member of back in the '80s, we shot spikes only for 5 years and then the paper co sold the land and we lost the lease. The guys that took over killed some HUGE bucks the first year, but after that, it was back to same situation as before the "experiment". Any spike over 3" became a trophy after about the first 2 years....Just goes to show hat shooting spikes does't get you anywhere...

I'm with you Shootist.
I have always been extremely interested in animal biology, white tails, especially.
A properly managed herd will produce good animals, but there are alos several other factors involved that go into the equation, good habitat being paramount.
A good buck - doe ratio is mandatory, and if an area gets its buck population reduced inproperly (too many big or dominante bucks) the ratio goes to hell in a handcart and you get inferior bucks breeding does.
The rut then gets messed up becuase the bucks don't have to compete to breed, and in turn, these inferior deer sire inferior deer.
I am not a trophy hunter , but love hunting deer.
These days I usually shoot a smaller buck or doe because I am not too worried about the size (if any) of the antlers but the venison that's underneath them.

catnthehat

Spikes taste fine. Whack em!