|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,215
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,215 |
Ah but Tonk, I have shot the PF-9 and my P3AT extensively. That's how I know they are reliable and they aren't guns to shoot matches or a couple boxes of ammo through in one session. There is a place for them in the world of CCW. Cost isn't a 100% reliable indication of quality or value. I fins it funny that a guy shooting relatively cheap plastic Glocks is dogging out other relatively cheap plastic guns as junk. There is plenty of product bias around here and less and less sharing of experiences with a product. I don't care why you like Glocks, it doesn't matter, I am happy you found something that works for you, no matter what it is. There are many more of us who have found a place and acceptable performance from the various Kel-Tec products than those who have not.
There are times where my OACP or even my CW40 are not optimal. For those times the Kel-Tecs are wonderful.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 572
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 572 |
I have one and find it's size great for concealed carry. Shoots decent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090 |
Planmech.......Now just in case you think I was picking on you and your Kel-Tec's, I suggest that anyone, who really wants to get the whole picture, just go over on the Kel-Tec pistol sight and read the remarks made by those who have purchased said "Cheap" made pistol. Read about all of those who have had to send their pistol back to get fixed.
Listen up, I gave those Kel-Tec's a real try out at the range. We went from the P-11 with a mile long trigger pull to the PF-9 and we went through 4 of those guns before I had enough of the JAMMING sessions. Now I know you are NOT shooting those Kel-Tecs in rapid fire because if you did they would indeed Jam on you sooner than later.
we had two gentlemen at my gun club who thought the same way about their Kel-Tec's....great little pistols. Yeah, until they tried shooting them as fast as they could pull that trigger and they found out, the true facts. They JAM JAM JAM BIG TIME!!!
We ran over 300 rounds through each of 4 new Kel-Tec pistols and a couple of Ruger LCP guns also. They all Jammed up sooner or later several times each. The best ammo was Blazer FMJ! Most did not like the hotter "self-dense" loads. On the Kel-Tec models, If one fails to let that trigger come all the way back after each cycle of the pistol, when firing it rapid (fast as you can pull that trigger) fire......IT WILL JAM and there is no way you can keep the trigger from going all the way forward on every shot in the magazine. I do hope you will soon realize, that to bet your life on something that goes Bang 80 percent of the time is not a good bet!!!
Last edited by Tonk; 05/10/10.
Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All
UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
Only one comment, shooting a pistol as fast as you can pull the trigger is called "spray & pray", a VERY POOR substitute for controlled shooting and scoring good solid hits.
This from a 20 year competitive shooter in the SD competitions and 30 year veteran Deputy Sheriff. I would rather have 1 or two good solid hits than a whole magazine of air punching. I prefer groups to "patterns" Sir.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Planmech.......Now just in case you think I was picking on you and your Kel-Tec's, I suggest that anyone, who really wants to get the whole picture, just go over on the Kel-Tec pistol sight and read the remarks made by those who have purchased said "Cheap" made pistol. Read about all of those who have had to send their pistol back to get fixed.
Listen up, I gave those Kel-Tec's a real try out at the range. We went from the P-11 with a mile long trigger pull to the PF-9 and we went through 4 of those guns before I had enough of the JAMMING sessions. Now I know you are NOT shooting those Kel-Tecs in rapid fire because if you did they would indeed Jam on you sooner than later.
we had two gentlemen at my gun club who thought the same way about their Kel-Tec's....great little pistols. Yeah, until they tried shooting them as fast as they could pull that trigger and they found out, the true facts. They JAM JAM JAM BIG TIME!!!
We ran over 300 rounds through each of 4 new Kel-Tec pistols and a couple of Ruger LCP guns also. They all Jammed up sooner or later several times each. The best ammo was Blazer FMJ! Most did not like the hotter "self-dense" loads. On the Kel-Tec models, If one fails to let that trigger come all the way back after each cycle of the pistol, when firing it rapid (fast as you can pull that trigger) fire......IT WILL JAM and there is no way you can keep the trigger from going all the way forward on every shot in the magazine. I do hope you will soon realize, that to bet your life on something that goes Bang 80 percent of the time is not a good bet!!! So, you have absolutely no experience with the P32s or P3ATs, then? Also, it sounds much more like shooter error than firearm malfunction. Funny, that you admit to not allowing the trigger to reset as it's designed to, then blame the firearm. You ran one P-11, didn't like the trigger pull. I can understand that, but that's not a malfunction. You ran 4 PF-9s, and found the same problem with them all: you didn't let the trigger reset. So, the K-Ts aren't for you. Chalk it up to that, and move on. That others, including myself, have run thousands of rounds through many more K-Ts than that, and through more models, finding no such fault (perhaps due to differences in firing style and/or hand geometry), says the same thing about these as about most firearms: find the one that works for you, and stick with it. That one might not work for you, does not mean that it can't, or won't, work VERY well for someone else; assuming it's not a complete POS. K-Ts are far from POS status, so chalk it up to just not working for you. And, yes, I've fired Kel-Tecs rapid fire. Repeatedly. Including the P-11 with it's (very true) mile long trigger pull... just like a DA revolver.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
I have a P3AT and it is a good, reliable weapon. Only have 400 rounds through mine, and it did require a break in period of around 150 rounds.It is, so far, 100% reliable with 90gr Hydrashoks and Gold Dots. I'm keeping mine. 
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 75
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 75 |
Contacted Kel-Tec yesterday to get status on my returned gun and was told turn around time is 8 to 10 weeks (from the day they started tracking it in their facility) for warranty repairs. Seems like a long time to me, must have a lot of guns there to be repaired.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090 |
T. Lee,......So you think shooting a pistol fast as you can pull the trigger is "spray & pray" hey!!! Well for someone who says he has shot competition bla bla bla. I would have to say your just a little off base as to my abilities with a pistol Mr. Deputy. You must NOT have been keeping up with the times and competition lately, they do shoot damn fast. This is NOT a Deputy Dog "Slow Fire" event for pistol qualification.
Now I have had the pleasure of shooting with some very fast shooting people (FBI agents, DEA agents, and local commanders of the road patrol) over the years and I can assure you at 6 or 7 feet from a human torso target, I don't even use the sights on my 10mm Glock and will put 5 out of 5 rounds in the area of the palm of your hand, right on the vital kill zone. Heart or Head makes no never mind!
I can also make head shots at 75 yards with that very same pistol, just in case you don't know and you don't evidently. I sir sure as Hell don't need to pray to hit my targets!
Last edited by Tonk; 05/12/10.
Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All
UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090 |
KpYoung......Yes, they always seem to be way behind, if they tell you 4 weeks, you best figure at least 8 weeks etc.
Kel-Tec's are just cheap, gonna work sometime but will JAM City on you sooner than later. NOT a great weapon to bet your life on under any circumstance. However, some people could never see the forest for the trees, if they were standing dead center in the middle of the forest.
Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All
UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
T. Lee,......So you think shooting a pistol fast as you can pull the trigger is "spray & pray" hey!!! Well for someone who says he has shot competition bla bla bla. I would have to say your just a little off base as to my abilities with a pistol Mr. Deputy. You must NOT have been keeping up with the times and competition lately, they do shoot damn fast. This is NOT a Deputy Dog "Slow Fire" event for pistol qualification.
Now I have had the pleasure of shooting with some very fast shooting people (FBI agents, DEA agents, and local commanders of the road patrol) over the years and I can assure you at 6 or 7 feet from a human torso target, I don't even use the sights on my 10mm Glock and will put 5 out of 5 rounds in the area of the palm of your hand, right on the vital kill zone. Heart or Head makes no never mind!
I can also make head shots at 75 yards with that very same pistol, just in case you don't know and you don't evidently. I sir sure as Hell don't need to pray to hit my targets! And? I've seen TLEE shoot, and he's seen me do likewise. Consider that the above isn't that hard, and yes, I have the same G20 with the same capabilities (FUGGIN' GREAT PISTOL!). The above doesn't change anything re: usefulness of the K-Ts vs. the inabilities/incompatibility of the user.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
KpYoung......Yes, they always seem to be way behind, if they tell you 4 weeks, you best figure at least 8 weeks etc.
Kel-Tec's are just cheap, gonna work sometime but will JAM City on you sooner than later. NOT a great weapon to bet your life on under any circumstance. However, some people could never see the forest for the trees, if they were standing dead center in the middle of the forest. Had exactly the opposite experience, but what else is new? You're experience with 4 PF-9s that did not fit you, and one P-11 that you didn't like, is not necessarily that broad, nor deep, of an experience.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090 |
VAnimrod.........Now yes I had 4 of the little plastic K-T pistols and they went by the wayside! Now what else do you want to harp about? Funny thing Guy, anyone who goes over to that Kel-Tec sight will soon find out those little cute plastic guns are a lot of trouble and do JAM JAM JAM and Break.......You must be the exception to the rule as far as Kel-Tec's and NOT JAMMING or Breaking goes.
I don't give a Rats A$$ if you have seen "Wild Bill Hickcock" shoot, just so you know. You haven't seen me shoot right! I didn't get off the big boat yesterday, especially when it comes to being able to shoot a friggin hand gun or other tools of the trade.
Last edited by Tonk; 05/12/10.
Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All
UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
The ass on your shoulders thing helps your case immensely.
Funny, if you go to 1911 sites, you find all kinds of folks talking about their Kimber/Wilson/Springfield, etc, jamming, too. Does that mean that the 1911s put out by those companies all suck?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
Tonk, there is fast controlled shooting and then there is spray & pray.
Just pulling the trigger as fast as you can trying to beat the reset is plain dumb. I don't need to embellish my shooting ability with claims of superman status, I was classed Master in in the IPSC and IDPA shooting I did and could run with the big dogs using 1911's in .45 & .38 Super and clean off 6 9" falling plates @ 25 yards in a taste over 3 seconds. I am a lot slower now days as I am near 70 years old, but I still hit what I shoot at using rapid fire not spray & pray, and no I cannot keep up with the kids anymore and know it.
The Kel-Tec's are not IPSC or IDPA guns, they are very good SD pistols for people that learn to shoot them properly. I have know 3-4 shooters that could whip my ass using revolvers against my 1911, there is ALWAYS somebody out there better than you are, ALWAYS.
Me thinks you need a bigger hat more than anything else.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090 |
Well like I stated prior......I know what a Kel-Tec is and I will not got so far as to let other people think or believe they are A-OK as a self-defense weapon of any kind.
Now as far as addressing my hat size, anytime you want to tell me some more about your shooting skills, I'll send you a friggin phone number and sing a tune in your ear as to just who you are really trying to impress. T-Lee one thing is for a FACT, I am the real deal my record does not LIE!!! You seem to have a big problem with the TRUTH according to others on this forum..........Dah!
VAnimrod....You sound like some kind of wise guy or wanna bee tuff guy......Ummmmmm maybe I should just pick up my marbles and go home in fear of getting an ass kicking hey. However, that will never happen.
Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All
UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,058
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,058 |
Google "Kahr PM-9 problems"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,058
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,058 |
I want something that is as dependable as it gets and to me, that is a GLOCK or H&K in a semi-auto pistol. They have twice the firepower or ammo in their magazine verses a 6 shot revolver which in most cases only has 5 rounds loaded in the cylinder. Not hardly as reliable as the mystique indicates: http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/gindex2.htmlFunny one on H&K, heard a few other people that have had problems with their H&K make similar comments on the service they got as well. http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
Tonk, I was merely stating my bonifides, I never said you couldn't do what you stated and frankly my dear I don't give a damn either way.
KMA & out.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090 |
I view your post as somewhat a threat! However, if you really want to know where I am at, I am not hard to find at all. I sure as hell am NOT your "dear" either. I am sure as hell not your "dear" savvy. I think your full of Bull-[bleep] period!!!
Oh yes, I am not by my lonesome in that assement either, least wise not on this forum.
Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All
UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Tonk;
You're seeing threats, where there aren't any, and seeing experience with an entire line-up of pistols, where you have none.
So, the reports of K-Ts jamming and having problems relegates the entire line (though you have no experience with the .380s and .32s) to junk status? Does that carry over through the reports of Kimber/Wilson, etc., 1911s jamming so all of their wares are junk, too? S&W Sigmas maligning the entire spectrum of S&Ws? Ruger SR-9s failing thus rendering every Ruger crap? Glock Ka-Booms trashing everything that Glock puts out...
Your logic, or lack thereof, extends only so far.
Carry on, though... you're making points quite nicely, though for the opposing positions.
|
|
|
|
|
595 members (257Bob, 007FJ, 1936M71, 1Longbow, 1234, 1lessdog, 57 invisible),
2,220
guests, and
1,186
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,661
Posts18,493,598
Members73,977
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
