Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters For legal purposes, when does a shotgun become a rifle?

In the July issue of Shooting Times, Dick Metcalf has an article "Savage Precision: Advances in the Art of Slug guns". Slug guns have come a long way over the past 30 years - just consider:

- They were originally smooth bore and fired a smooth sided slug.
- Then, slugs with spirals around their circumference gave the slug some spin.
- Accuracy improved and cantilevered scope mounts were put on the barrel of some guns.
- Then, rifled barrels were introduced giving some really good accuracy in custom bolt action slug guns (Tarheel comes to mind).
- Now, Savage has a bolt action rifled 20 gauge slug gun that has the energy and trajectory of the 45-70 and 454 Casull and delivers 3-4" accuracy at 200 yards.

At some point, state game departments are going to look at slug guns differently than they do now. If this gun delivers 45-70 performance, why can I hunt with it in slug areas but not a 45-70?

What are you opinions?

I agree.

However, the slug gun will become closer to a rifle when ammo isn't over 3 bucks a pop and the ballistics/accuracy are equals.

The 45/70, even a 454/44Mag/45Colt rifle I'd still take over the best slug load any day.

When they quit using shotgun shells to propel the bullet.Shotguns have a limited range compared to a rifle.Slugs always went that far,but with no accuracy.Now they are accurate to a longer range.Bonus!!!!!!So whats the point of this topic???? Its unfair to have an accurate slug gun????

I think the topic is that the shotgun only laws are horsechit.

In New York State, many counties that were shotgun/slug only for ever are now becoming rifle areas. Two more for this year that I know of are Wyoming and Ontario, both of which I hunt each year.

You can't imagine how happy this makes me!

A rifle barrel can be 16" a shotgun barrel can be no shorter than 18". If it is a rifled barrel can it be a rifle??? I mean if you have an encore or something you can make it a rifle or a shotgun or a muzzleloader simply by your choice of barrels!

"At some point, state game departments are going to look at slug guns differently than they do now. If this gun delivers 45-70 performance, why can I hunt with it in slug areas but not a 45-70?"

They have to draw the line somewhere. Also they probably know that most people are going to be using run of the mill Mossbergs, etc.

From:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification.html
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Rifle

18 U.S.C., � 921(A)(7) and 27 CFR � 478.11

The term �Rifle� means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

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Shotgun

18 U.S.C., � 921(A)(5) and 27 CFR � 478.11

The term �Shotgun� means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
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I suspect the part about "fixed metallic cartridge" would keep a 16.5 inch rifled shotgun from being a legal rifle.

Bruce

Where does that put a rifled slug barrel?
What if I am loading slugs in a brass shotgun shells?

it is posts like this that give the BATF ideas. can't you all keep your mouth shut and just enjoy the ride while it lasts?

And except for shotguns it's a destructive device if it's a "firearm" and the bore is larger than .50 inch. So unfortunately(!) Mule Deer won't be developing a B-58.

I know a BATF employee who is an avid hunter and gun collector (WW1 and WW2 rifles). I don't think he needs us to get any new ideas. He also opposes more senseless regulations.

I believe the 20 gauge is 45 caliber and these loads use Hornady's 250 gr. FTX bullet.

20 ga. nominally .615" and 12 ga. .729". Can vary a bit.

Nighthawk - you are right about the bore diameter. I believe they use a sabot for the .45 cal bullets.

Unfortunately this post points to a sad tendency: people are substituting technology for hunting skill.

As far as laws, they become outdated, if they even made any sense to begin with, they are written by politician's assistants, and often are rather silly.

How many gang massacres happened in the prohibition era by goons armed with Marble Game Getters, or smooth bore SAA's?

I don't see using an accurate shotgun as substituting technology for hunting skill. Do you purposely buy and hunt with a rifle that can't do any better than a 4" group at 100 yards when there are ones available that will group better than an inch?

One has to ask why the rules specify that only shotguns be used. Is it due to hunter densities? If so, using a more accurate shotgun isn't harming anything because the range of the slug is still roughly the same as using a smooth bore with no sights. The more accurate shotgun just gives the hunter a better chance of a clean kill.

Well, I'll trade you our wonderful slug only status.

We are at 1875 now; perhaps 1910 if you throw the pumps and autos in there.

I would say,it becomes a rifle when the projectile is in a metal cartridge,and it is just a bit bigger than the the bore.
until then it's a shotgun with a rifled barrel shooting a saboted bullet.

as far as skill goes,unless you have had to hunt in shotgun only world don't judge those who have.

Pressure limitations of plastic and paper shells will continue to limit the ballistic potential of a "shotgun." This is strictly a hunter density and proximity to dwelling issue in my state. The higher hunter density and closer proximity to dwellings, the more likely a county will be shotgun only. However, we can use handguns in shotgun counties, so I use my Savage Striker in 7mm-08 and my buddy uses his in .260. No, it doesn't make any sense, but I am not going to say anything to the DNR about it.

Fast Ed