Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 7mm-08 on brown bear?

FWIW, my cousin who is a much more serious big game hunter than I am, killed a big Brown some years back with a 7 mag in a BAR, however, I think he fired 11 shots before the war was over with. Hit him first shot in front shoulders, and hit him 6 more all over as he was coming toward him, whether he was charging or not is debatable, finally finished him off at about 10 yards as the bear was trying to crawl toward him with one thru the neck. He says today that he would use a bigger caliber. <P>He had a native guide, who did not have a rifle, and was not happy with his choice of calibers, as soon as he shot the first shot the native unas.ed the area, and as the bear was crawling towards him, my cousin says he heard someone that sounded like they were whispering, "Shoot 'in in the neck, shoot 'in in the neck." When he turned around when it was all over the guide was on a hill about a 100 yards away, and his hollering was what he thought was a whisper. Smart guide. LOL

Here is the crumudgeon (sp) again. Isolated instances like that above don't mean a thing to me. Isolated instances are just that. Isolated instances. What does, is what generally is the case and generally acceptable. A poorly shot brown bear with a 458 is just as poorly shot with a 7x57. That doesn't make a 458 a poor bear gun. The question is--is a 7X57 an excuse for somebody who is recoil shy to hunt brown bear with? The guy and his wife who posed this question can hunt with the 7x57 if it is legal and heck, I can do nothing about it but scratch my head in amusement. I am concerned however, if the bear is not killed humanly or just wounded. At that point the reach of your doubled up fist has reached the end of somebody elses nose and they have a right to be angry even if I don't. Even if you paid my way, I would not accompany these folks on such a 7x57 foray. Sorry. This sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

I'm a curmudgeon of the first order and if someone wants to pay my way, I'll go. I trust Sitka Deer and his wife's shooting. There is only one wee little problem that occurs to me, and that is that I doubt my fat butt could outrun either one of them. LOL<BR>However, if someone wants to start the ball rolling, I will open the "Send my fat butt to be bear bait account" and wait for the thousands to roll in.

IIFID<BR>You are most welcome to come along as volunteer bear bait, I'll even get my buddy the tee-shirt printer to make up a properly labled uniform for you. UH... you are quite sure we can out-run you, right?<P>Rolly<BR>We are just considering our options at this point, but frankly, have a fairly high probability of using the 7-08. I respect your feelings and hope I did not raise your blood pressure too much.<P>I can assure you there will be no reckless lead slinging done. Also, another friend has the same tag, was in a party drawing with my wife, and will be with us. I suspect he will be shooting his 338.<P>The second biggest bear in the last B&C awards book was huge, skull just missed 30". The little lady who shot it did so with a 160 gr Barnes bullet (not sure whether it was the solid or the X) from a 7x57 at 22'. <P>It has been done too many times to be called a stunt anymore. When one looks at the difference between the little 7s and the truly big guns there is a vast difference. But if I said she was using the 30-06, few would call it reckless. The difference between the little 7s and the 06 is really pretty skinny.<P>Sheister<BR>I did expect a few more direct posts than this has generated. I was hoping someone had some anecdotal info about their own use of the 7s for bear.<P>Thanks for bringing up the engine [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <P>Have been trying to forget. No word yet on extent of damage, or anything else.<BR>art

Sorry Art, didn't mean to bring up any bad subjects. Tell you what, if you find the parts down here cheap enough and pay half my airfare I'll bring the parts along as part of my baggage and come up and do a little fishing. Now, what could be more fair than that? LOLOL [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]- Sheister<P>Rolly, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I was hoping you would notice the smiley face and understand I was answering in jest. In fact, if I was serious I would probably have called you a "Fudd" instead of a curmudgeon. LOL [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I believe Art, unlike many on this board, has the experience to make an intelligent decision even without our help but it is always fun to ask the opinion of people you trust and respect just for kicks and giggles. Many of us do it, even though we know the conclusion we will probably come to long before asking. At least I think that is what he is doing! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]- Sheister

If you ask Big Stick he will probably tell you to use the 120 X. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <P>I have never hunted brown bear, but I can tell you from reloading for my uncles' 280 Sako with the 140 X at 2850 fps, that this bullet has yet to be recovered in moose, elk or caribou.

First, let me say that I have never shot a bear. Almost everything I have read about brown bear hunting stresses putting the first shot through the shoulders so that the mobility of the bear is restricted. Somehow I doubt the 7-08 is going to do an adequate job of breaking down the shoulders of an animal that can weigh upwards of 1000 lbs. and kills for a living. I wouldn't ask my ex to hunt browns with a 7-08. I sure wouldn't. Doesn't seem prudent. Not having first hand experience I can't claim to be an expert, those who have the experience often reccommend the 300 mags as a minimum and a larger gun for backup as a wounded brownie has been known to attempt to return the favor. However, you know what she and you are capable of, that just leaves the capabilities of the bear as the unknown. I'll be praying for ya, hope you don't mind.

Me and my wife have used several 7-08s on Kodiak quite a bit. I have been around alot of bears and have even been charged a few times. One thing I would not do is go bear hunting with the 7-08. Most areas shots will be under 100 yards and wouldn't be suprised if 50 yards is more like it. Expect thick brush and low visability. Don't plan on being able to get in a second shot. Most bear run the other way when shot. A very few will be agressive after the shot. If you have never seen a 1200 pound bear cover 50 yards coming strait at you, it is very impressive. I felt my 358STA was on the small side at that moment. <BR>Why can't you load light loads in the 35 whelen for your wife to practice with and have her shoot full loads only to check point of aim. I promise you she will not feel a thing when it comes time to shoot that bear.<BR>If it were my wife I would not let her do it. She has also been charged by a bear and got over her recoil problem real quick. I don't think she would use the 7-08 even if I let her.

If we assume you and your wife will excercise good judgement and turn down a shot that would be OK for a larger caliber but marginal for the 7mm08, I've got a question. If permits on Kodiak are so hard for residents to draw they are basically a once in a lifetime event, why would anyone want to cut down their chances of success by going in with a "deer" rifle...kind of like taking a knife to a gunfight.

Sheister<BR>Any connection between your handle and your desire to work a system? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Freight is not the big part of the cost. Now if you were hauling a midget mechanic as baggage, we might be able to talk.<P>Thunderstick<BR>I'm getting slightly more velocity out of 140gr Partitions than you mentioned for the 140 X, but that is likely the best that the X will do. <P>I would prefer to see the first bullet simply pass through the lungs and leave an exit hole. Breaking down a bear requires that big bones be broken, They are too easy to miss to the wrong side.<P><BR>Kodiakisland<BR>The tag is for Terror Bay, Uganik Island. I shot a bear there in the spring of '97. Saw 16 shootable bears in 10 days, including a fair sized bear we could have shot from the boat within an hour of entering the area.<P>Brushy as it is there, planning for a second shot is wasted time, I must agree.<P>I have seen a number of bluffs over the years and am not too worried about that part of it.<P>DB Bill<BR>We are going to have a good time, spend lots of time outside, we might even kill a couple bears. But, if things do not work out and we cannot find a bear in an assissted suicide set-up, it is no big deal. Either way, it is hard for me to call that a wasted tag.<P>We can hunt big bears every year if we want, it is just choice Kodiak areas where the tags are so hard to draw. We could also hunt the road system on the island each year and that is not a drawing. <P>And we are not looking for the biggest bear on the island either, we don't have room for him. While Kodiak has "that" mystique, because of the size of the bears, it is incredible just hanging out over there, miles from nowhere.<P>We still might do something else for a rifle.<BR>thanks for all the comments to all,<BR>art

I know that Eleanor O'Connor used .30/06s on lion, tiger and elephant. A lot of Kodiak's have probably fallen to .30/30s. Anything shooting a projectile can kill, but I believe that anyone who goes after a Brownie is very dedicated. If it were my wife (and I recently hadn't taken out a half mil $ policy on her) I would get her a .338 and work the loads progressively up for her until she could shoot close to full power fairly comfortably.

Jean Jacquoit supposedly made a living shooting big griz with a .250 Savage. If she won't shoot a bigger rifle, try her out on heavier bullets. The 7mm-08 seems to handle 160s pretty well. Since the gun doesn't like Xs one of the others ought to suffice, it ain't like the impact velocity is gonna be over the 2800 fps that corelokts, interlocked, and partitions handle so well. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

If it were my Wife,I'd much prefer her to use the 7-08 and X's,as opposed to a "larger" rifle,she couldn't shoot as well. I'd experiment,with several different weights and select the one that was most promising(140-160gr). Then I'd let her bang away with like weight projectiles,of typical construction,to defray the cost of practice ammo. That in order to become more proficient,because practice can never hurt the end result,no matter your level of experience. <P>I personally would NOT,entertain the idea of another projectile type,with the possible exception of the FailSafe. X's or bust for me,in that situation.<P>I'd be shooting the same chambering as you,for backup(one of my 375AI's),it too would be loaded with X's. Given your Wife's abilities with the 7-08 and knowing this isn't your first Rodeo,I'd not give the matter another thought.<P>Tell her congratulations and that some are QUITE jealous of her tag drawing abilities!.......

Sitka, I like your point of view conserning the hunt. It's going to be a win-win situation, with the bear as gravey1 What a great time!<P>If I were you, and my wife had a real warm, fuzzy fondness for a rifle, I would use the rifle. I would not want to wonder about her flinching at the wrong time with anything else. My unrefined opinion is that a well-constructed bullet of the caliber she likes will do a good job when placed through the slats. I don't think I'd feel too good about Stick's "gas tank" shot with the setup, though.<P>If the first shot is screwed up, the situation is not good regardless of caliber. I would rather deal with a cheesed-off bear which has received a good double-lung shot than same bear gutshot -- or worse.<P>Recall the earlier thread about the Inuit fellow using his .222 on Polar bear?<P>Whatever you do, I'm very happy for you. Talus

Sitka, I can tell from your previous posts that I'm preaching to the choir here, but I'll go ahead.<P>You mentioned that the rifle does not like X bullets. If the X gives you more confidence, it probably makes sense. You are talking about a sub-100 yard shot at a lethal zone the size of a medium kitchen appliance, right?<P>I may be exaggerating, but you see my point. An inch of accuracy won't make any difference here.<P>Or am I wrong about the distance?<P>Talus.

I don't think any one questions the ability of the 7-08 to kill even a 1500lb bear. I will use mine on elk without second thought. Much has been done with the 7X57 wich is a vertual twin. Calibers for hunting bear can be quite smaller than those for bear defense. Often when hunted the bear doesn't know you are there until the shot. Then it usually wants to run away rather than attack.<BR>Thus said I still don't like limiting myself with the 7-08 when bear hunting. Especially with such a prime and hard to get tag. Having spent alot of time in the alders, I much prefer large frontal area with great penetration. I do my bear hunting in the fall and probably spend more time in the alders than you will in the spring.<BR>Some have refered to using light loads as practice as a trick. They may be suprised to learn that most people who fire large caliber rifles regularly use reduced rounds at the range. I certainly do as I fire hundreds of rounds a month through several diferent rifles. I believe recoil shy shooters can learn to be proficient with just about anything when using light loads for practice. If more people did this they might actually be able to shoot well.

Kaibab<BR>She shoots her little rifle happily, even with 140gr Partitions at nearly 3,000fps. She has had lots of opportunity to shoot lots of other rifles with modest loads and even used one of my 300mags when she drew a Delta bison tag (yeah, she draws tags better than I do, too!)<P>She did not like it and that experience weights my feelings toward her favorite rifle. She did perfectly fine with the 300, but I think she would have done better and enjoyed everything better with the 7.<P>slamfire and talus<BR>The rifle will deliver 140 partitions as fast as they can be driven, into 3/4" or less, all day long. She has shot a number of sub 1/2" groups. 140gr Xs do about double that, plenty good enough.<P>Big Stick<BR>Was expecting you to say that the 120gr X will move enough faster that it will penetrate deeper and likely pass through a bear. Have seen other posts where you spoke to its ability to kill way out of proportion to its size.<P>Guess that is why I was asking! I have never shot the 160s, but probably should, just to see if it will shoot any better.<P>All things being equal, would you prefer the 140 or 160 here?<P>Kodiak Island<BR>I don't like the alders much, either, but that is the class you sign up for in Terror Bay! Like I said before, the tag won't be wasted.<P>The other guy with the tag is walking on air, especially because we told him he could have any particularly big bears, we want about an 8' bear. My Uganik Island bear from '97 turned out to be too large to hang anywhere in the house. Gave it to the friends who came along to do all the work. It was a long 8 1/2'.<P>Thanks again to all<BR>art

Art if that the rifle she shoots well and has<BR>confidence in thats the one she should use. <BR>My buddy and I shot a 7'6" Interior Grizz. not a Kodiak Brown but a nice bear with an<BR>06 and backup shot with 7mm Mag. 2 exit holes<BR>in off shoulder dead bear. It sounds like you will look for that ideal bear about that <BR>size and that situation unaware bear good range and distance to cover sufficent to allow backup shot. Several years ago a women <BR>shot a 9' Brown near Slana 1 shot with a 7/57. Comfort with the rifle means a whole lot. My wife shot a nice Black this fall from a bobbing boat thru the upper neck said<BR>that was where she was aiming did not argue with her! Bigger calibers tend to keep a bear down longer on a non fatal shot and will sometimes leave an exit hole to help track but on bear that is iffy.

It is amazing how your attitudes towards what to use hunting change over the years, for several years there, I wanted my first wife to go Brown Bear hunting with a slingshot and have a .22 short derringer as a back-up, with some fresh cooked bacon in each pocket for a snack. Nowadays, I am rarely bothered by Brown Bears down here in Texas and I am sure not going to bother them up there in Alaska.

Kurt<BR>I agree with you that it makes more sense to do what feels right. There is no doubt it can do the job, under the exact right circumstances. <P>IIFID<BR>Does this mean you don't want the tee-shirt? I was looking forward to annoying BooBoo and running [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>art<P>Tell us how you really feel about the ex.