Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 7mm-08 on brown bear?

If she can shoot 140 grain Xs into an inch and a half, all day long, as fast as she can work the action, why did you ask the question? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Sitka Deer:<P>The money flow is surprisingly slow into the send me to Alaska account. It may not be possible at this rate, but I sure wanted that T shirt.<P>As far as Boo-Boo goes, I am certain I cannot outrun you whole, however, if you had some holes in various appendages, I am sure that the bear would stop for the equivalent of buffalo wings as a snack, allowing my escape. My specialty is shotguns and they are really good at making multiple holes. Sort of a tenderizer for buddy bear. LOL I can't remember the name of the tune, but I'm sure you have heard the Jimmy Buffet tune about the bear and the bootlegger. Perhaps some moonshine is the best bait?

Slamfire<BR>I can shoot the little rifle that well, but it would not be my choice, hence the question. It is light for the job and I am willing to consider all the variables before we make a final decision. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] <P>IIFID<BR>I am certain that all you need is a little better ad man. If everyone here recognized the obvious value in contributing to the "CAT BAIT" fund, they would start opening up their wallets. You just need to give them a place to send the money and a reason.<P>Movie rights might be valuable, as well. "A Good Texan In Alaska" or the making thereof pops to mind! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <P>Don't know that AK allows one to use loaded bait for bear, so you will have to leave your guns at home.<P>In a week of fishing while bear hunting you should be able to catch enough fish to make the trip worthwhile anyway.<BR>art

Certainly the 7-08 is not on many lists of cartridges recommended for brownies. However if one selects the best available bullet and has the discipline to shoot, only on the shooter's terms a bear can be taken with a 7-08. The shooters ability with the rifle plays into the scenerio a lot. Mr. Bell shot many big animals with the 7X57, but he shot every animal on his own terms and was a great shot. I saw a bumper sticker "The more I practice the luckier I get". The envelope for hunting bears with a 7-08 is narrow and the margin for error is equally as narrow so I believe self discipline, of the shooter, is paramount.pak

Pete,<P>Good points, and I've stated them many times before when the caliber wars rev up. As far as that bumper sticker, what I'd apply to this thread is a license plate I saw up here, 375H&H [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] <P>Anyhow, I know the 375 is out, but I think Art's wife can go up a bit in power w/o objectionable recoil.

Pete<BR>All of you are completely correct about the marginal nature of the 7mm-08 on the big bears, but my question to you is a simple one- what would you say about the 270? If I had said she was going to use the 270 how many of the naysayers would then be saying no?<P>As I said above, I would take the 7-08 before I would take the 270. <P>Paul<BR>It still comes down to how much of an advantage will she have using a gun she is extremely comfortable with, and more to the point, how much more fun will it be for her?<P>I will concede she would be better off with a 308, but if she gives up her rifle, shouldn't we take a nice big step, like the 30-06, or even my 8x57?<BR>art

Art, I too would take the larger caliber. Additionally I would take the 7-08 over many of the handgun cartridges.pak

Art,<P>Have you considered a re-barrel for the existing gun? The barrel contour kinda limits you, and I don't know that I'd go to all the trouble and expense just to make it a .308, but it is something to consider, as she's familiar with the gun, and it would be essentially the same gun she is familiar with. <P>I can't imagine that a .358 w/ a good brake would be unmanageable for her. I hate, curse and despise brakes, but there is not denying they work well, couldn't believe how mild the braked 338 I shot was.

Paul<BR>Cannot imagine rebarreling such an accurate little rifle. It weighs just 5#12oz and is poor-boy braked with a series of 12 quarter-inch holes at the muzzle.<P>Still kicks out the 140gr Partitions at almost 3000fps. Would start over from scratch before I touched that rifle. I do have a few potential project guns I could put together for the job- but still leaning toward the little 7.<BR>art

I have only taken one brown bear in my life. It was a 10'5" brownie, he's in the B&C record book. He took three good hits from a .375 H&H before expiring, and provided a good bit of excitement in the meantime. If I ever go brown bear hunting again, it will be with my .416. To even consider brown bear hunting with the little 7mm is just pure foolishness. Save it for Sitka blacktails and black bears.

Bighorn<BR>That is a monster bear! Who, where and when were you hunting? Would not even consider shooting a bear that big, both because we would not have room for him and because the little 7mm is not the right medicine for a truly big bear.<P>That said, I am sure you realize the size difference between a bear like yours and an 8' bear. They are tremendously different animals.<P>We will have 2 hunters, and my wife would defer all big bears to the other guy, who will be shooting the 338, backed by the 375AI.<P>I understand fully your position and cannot argue with it in regards to a real bear.<BR>art

Sitka,<BR>I hunted the Aleutian Island chain, around Cold Bay, Alaska. Year was 1984, my outfitter was the legendary Clark Engle, now deceased. Brent Hudson was my guide. After the drying period, the skull was measured at 28 3/16- he shows up in the B and C book as taken by the guy from Castle Rock, CO.

Knew Clark well. He should never have taken up flying. He was too nice of a guy for the guiding and flying business and knew all about the concept of "dying to get somewhere."<P>The year he died ('87) I guided for one of his best friends, Jim Harrower, and you could see how it affected him.<BR>art

Sitka,<P>As to your querry on bullet weights(140 vs. 160gr),both are comparable. Meaning with like placement,they'll do like things internally. I'd simply choose the one that performs best,in the particular rifle.<P>Either will take out lungs(as you mentioned prior),and that shot would be my plan of attack as well,while employing that rifle/load. With a lung shot,he's gonna travel,that is a given. Penetration will be sufficient,but the load lacks bone smashing abilities. It will bust one shoulder,but not both.<P>As mentioned countless times prior,placement first. Power second. A Spring Hunt favors your wishes. The brush is off and visibility better. You are more apt to successfully complete a spot and stalk,style of Hunt in the Spring as opposed to the Fall. That generally means an undisturbed animal and time is on your side,for determining shot angle and placement. Likely,that will also allow you the luxury of choosing your shot distance. You won't be wading upstream on some densely covered fishcreek,where the action is likely faster and more furious(like a Fall Hunt).<P>A spot and stalk Hunt,further hedges odds in your favor,because you can control more variables. Given that,the abilities of your Wife with that particular rifle,good bullets and your "backup",I'd say you'd best bring a good sharp knife. (She's gonna need it)............

Big Stick<BR>It is the same area I shot a bear in '97. We had 16 to choose from in 10 days. This time we will be looking for 2, but that is not a problem there.<P>Biggest problem we had was the herring opener about half-way through the hunt. All of the spotter birds and whole bunch of boats kind of stirred the bears for a couple of days. <P>One enormous boar was spotted running across a snow field at the head of the bay, and then non-stop for miles toward us, ultimately to go right up into the rocks way up in goat country, lay down on top of a big rock, cross his paws, drop his head on them and not move for 4 days. He was still there when we left. <P>Thanks for the insight on the bullet weights, I had thought the lightest, fastest would be your choice. Will be interesting to see if they shoot better than the 140s.<BR>art

Sitka Deer:<P>I'd be the first to admit that I know nothing about shooting bears, but since you are not looking for a trophy and your wife can shoot so well and you are going to be close, why don't you brain him?<P>Finally, and I'm sure you'll love this, I don't understand the logic of applying for a trophy bear area permit and then wanting to shoot a semi-runt. If you can hunt Browns in other areas every year as you said, haven't you effectively taken the place of someone who really wants a chance at a trophy? I realize this is your choice, I just don't understand the reasons.

Sitka,<P>Though a great fan of light for diameter projectiles,that choice ISN'T based upon their superior penetrating capabilities. To get a light for diameter projectile to penetrate,you MUST use a capable bullet(enter the Barnes X).<P>That being said,the lightest of bullet weights in a given diameter,can't readily match the penetration capabilities,of like diameter,but heavier projectiles of equal construction. My point is,on most Game,either train of thought will exit.<P> So I generally reap the rewards of the lighter weight X's,for their trajectory capabilities and rapid terminal effects(they stew innards in a manner,that only high impact velocities are capable,while still exiting). Those things are factors to me on "typical" critters. HOWEVER,I'd certainly be the first to rate a Brown Bear as atypical. That both in size and tenacity. So one must stack the odds favorably. The easiest way to do that,without purchase of a new rifle,is to increase projectile weight,while still retaining it's integrity(simply put,a heavier X). This while not going so heavy,as to handicap the cartridge's abilities. It is all give and take.<P>So while a 120gr X,launched from a 7-08,is fully capable of exiting an Elk/BIG Black Bear(done it),it is pretty light for the task you demand. An increase in weight,adds to penetration capabilities and would be my suggestion.<P>A 140gr X in .284" diameter,will drive deeper than a 175gr Partition(as a comparison),due to it's superior construction. To go heavier than 160gr in the 7-08,readily starves powder capacity and it is a diminishing return,in my opinion. I believe the 140gr to be the best weight,for the capacity offered by the 7-08,when tackling something capable of striking back. That doesn't mean that somebody hasn't killed bigger or smaller critters,with a different weight,but in my estimation the 140 is PERFECT for BIG critters. It provides a nice blend of speed,that will drive amazingly deep,with every yank of the trigger. Sometimes it is comforting to know what is going to happen,BEFORE the shot. The 7-08 and good bullets,gives me such confidence. It really is amazing.<P>BUT,I still remain biased to the mighty 120gr,for everything LESS than your Adventure demands............

IIFID<BR>You make several good points, but bear skulls are the trophy, to me, and they are a much smaller target. While lots of folks talk about bullets bouncing off bear craniums, I doubt that is a real concern. So it just boils down to target size. An on-coming bear though, should be met right in the nose.<P>As far as wasting a choice tag goes; the guides will be looking for trophy bears that start about where our looking ends, a good representative bear. We will have another hunter with us looking for the real big boy. <P>If everybody demanded the same from their trophy, there would be fewer of them. An 8' bear is a good bear, even on Kodiak. There are not all that many 10' bears anywhere.<P>Besides there is more to it than just killing a bear. The wasted tag problem is real here because an amazing number of people apply for tags and never use them when they realize how much it will cost to make their dream come true. A simple fly-out to the area we are going, for example, with a raft would easily cost 2,000 for 2 guys. <P>About 4 years ago I drew a dall sheep tag in a great area, right close to town, no cost to get there. Of the 10 tags given out, only 4 hunters reported even going hunting. <P>Big Stick<BR>Thanks for clarifying. I had thought I read one of your posts which talked about a specific case of extreme penetration with the 120X and knew I had seen other posts which raved about it. I had intended to play with the 160, because the 140 is the one which would not shoot as well, and still will.<BR>Thanks again<BR>art

I cannot imagine any situation where I would intentionally shoot a big bear with a 7-08. Yes, the rifle could kill the bear, but if things go really wrong, you will regret your choice bitterly. I recently had an encounter with a big brownie wounded by two solid hits from a 338 and a 375 - he was still alive and ready to gut us 45 minutes later. He died after three more 338s and a 375 for a finisher. Save the 7-08 for those fine Kodiak blacktails.....

Yea sure, how about bringing along the Daisy Red Rider as a spare rifle. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img]