Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Lab or german short hair

it depends on the lab...my late fathers late old buddy gene who pretty successfully trialed his english pointers declared outright that there was no such thing as a pointing lab, when i asked him to hunt with us in the early 90s... after a half dozen pheasants pointed and held, and one covey of hungarians, he changed his tune...

my old peet was a bird knockin fool of a dog... he was tall, long legged and lean, and he could hunt hard all day long... he'd do it for a week at a time, too... tail high and charging hard til he was back in the truck, and halfway home...
i've known one other lab like him, and one half lab/half golden... otis and reb, they were called by...

I love all bird dogs, so I'm not knocking anybody. That's the last thing I'd do. People should love the dogs they hunt.

But, there's a pretty big difference between pheasants in the sloughs and quail over the open ground. I've been fortunate enough to see about everything except Huns in the big wheat stubble.

I guess this is where I stand. If I take the top 10% of labs for retrieving, there are no better dogs. If I take the top 10% of pointers (and, in general, I'm talking English), then that is precisely what I want for big open country birds. I've yet to see a lab that can run with a pointer, nor have I ever seen a pointer that can handle big water like a lab. There will be exceptions, but, over a 1000 dogs, this will be the trend.

i [bleep] hate huns.....

I've hunted them but a few times and then, in western Iowa. Pretty hard to get a point on them. Or, at least that was my experience. Both birds I killed were the unluckiest creatures on earth. Dog pointed, I could see them run like race horses ahead, and I dropped one when it flew at 40 yds. or so. Same with the second. The Iowa birds pretty much disappeared in the late 90's.

they do the same thing here with dogs......however if your out walking by yourself, such as when deer or speed goat hunting, they hold tight till you damn near step on them then they explode from benieth your feet like a landmine.....ive run into rabid skunks and rattlers while out hunting but nothing takes years off my life as those lil feathered [bleep] exploding at my feet.....damn things have cost me a few head of big game to the loud cussing that tends to go along with the explosion of feathers....

I have a pointing lab, and I have no doubt that the pointing breeds are better upland dogs than labs. I figure the pointing is a bounus as my primary needs are for a retriever. However, mine does all for me I could ask. He is very strong willed,independent, hard headed, great nose, and full of drive. I have to get on my bicycle everyday and do a 2 mile ride to get him enough exercise.

I've had dogs, setters, and labs, all my life, this one is extremely bright, and a real handful. He is a lot of fun, I wouldn't trade him for anything.

Whatever you pick give them plenty of love and enjoy the ride.

I know of only one lab that can go the distance with pointers, but she is a VERY exceptional dog, quick enough on her feet to kill rattlers - that is , AFTER she quit pointing them!!
The first one, she pointed it and it bit her on the nose, my frend danged near lost her.
now she simply kills them.
As far as running long and hard goes, she regularly runs pointers into the ground.
My son's GSP does the same with all the labs he has met and played with, as well as a few Siberians , both breed known for its speed.
however, this lab points , but not as good as the true pointers I hunted over.
never had the pleasure of hunting out of a duck blind with any kind of pointer however.
I love labs, but for up in my country unless they course pretty close it's a pointer that will do best on our ruffed grouse.
Cat

as to what the original poster wants, i'd like to have an idea where he lives and what he might be hunting before i made an actual recommendation...

short of that i'd note that the statements of others about pointing dogs being better than labs for upland game do have some merit, considering the average dog...

that said, i'll state categorically that the average hunter in most of these United States will see and get shots at more game with any decently bred lab of normal demeanor and hunting instincts...

this has everything to do with the eager to please nature of the labs and less to do with their bird finding and hunting ability...

a hunter with an exceptional lab is blessed indeed....

My experience with being around a lot of labs and GSPs and GWPs is that the latter two are generally endowed with a higher energy nature and require more attention and work. This is generally true of all pointers which would express itself in the home too which is something to keep in mind. My own GWP is a kennel dog and requires a 3-5 mi workout about every other day to keep him from boredom and he is a prolific shedder too which is not conducive to being in the house. Personality-wise he friendly, good with kids and other people and is just superb as a bird dog with an excellent nose which again is generally true of pointers vs. Retrievers, the latter, though making excellent pets, being a little less intensely "wired".

Edited to add that my GWP is a fast and wide ranging dog by nature, covering tremendous acreage as I stroll behind. I hunt pheasants exclusively in IA and SD and he will not miss a bird--if they are there he will find them. The labs I've hunted with simultaneously won't begin to cover the same amount of ground. But that may not be the kind of dog you need.

If I were forced to choose a dog for the home and the field it would be neither of these two but between these two I'd pick a lab but it would be quite a compromise for my country.

johnw, I would absolutely agree that a man is blessed to have a fine dog. And a nice lab is a blessing. Full disclosure, I named my son after the best lab I've ever seen.

Otherwise, I suppose I would respectfully disagree. My experience is directly opposite of yours. I would be willing to place any pointer on the ground against any lab. I will say, though, that is from a person that's lived with both pointers and retrievers for 30 years. It is a matter of preference, yes, but, if it didn't gain results, I wouldn't make the argument. There is a very good reason why labs don't make all age gun dogs and why pointers don't make retriever trial dogs.

goodnews, I've hunted Iowa for over 20 years with any breed you'd like to name. One of the better pheasant dogs I've ever seen was a black lab that lived it every day and lived near Afton. I can honestly say, though, that my setters, hunted hard previously, and given a days acclimation, would more than hold their own. As my grandad taught me, never have a dog you'd be embarrassed to show. . .

I find it interesting how everyones lab points better than a pointer and everyones pointer retrieves better than a lab. Funny thing is I never see it.

Pointers must have better noses than labs. That is why they never use labs as bomb and drug dogs they use pointer breeds instead. Or wait........

thing to keep in mind a german short hair aint a pointer in the way an english pointer is.....they were bred to do everything and in germany arent called a pointer.....do they point? most definitely but they were also bred to retrieve from land and water and track large and small game aswell as being a bird dog....

if i were a heavy waterfowl hunter i would have a lab as they will be better at doing cold water retrieves all day.....but i hunt dry land in mostly warm to cool weather with the occasional stock pond or creek duck....love my GSP, he is definitely part of the family, affectionate as hell and whines if he doesnt get to be with us...he loves playing with kids....a friend that lives next door has a lil boy and he and Jake play games through the fence all day....

if yah like labs get a lab

if yah like cold water waterfowl hunting get a lab or a German wirehair

if you like a GSP get a GSP

if yah do alot of warm weather upland hunting i would prolly give the edge to teh average GSP over the average lab but i have hunted over labs that did just fine out after grouse but they were buddies dogs that spent most their working life in the duck blind not walking fields...but they still worked fine for grouse most days...

get the breed yah like and hunt with it....

Very well said

I'm not sure why anyone would think that labs or pointers necessarily has a better nose than another. I'm sure Ingwe can enlighten us, but disposition for service means more than nose at some point. Of all breeds, IIRC, the bloodhound is considered to have the keenest sense of smell, but you don't see too many of these working drug details either (but they are used for man-hunting--really a bit curious about that).

For the record, I still maintain there's a very good reason you don't see labs in all-age field dog trials or pointers in retriever trials. It doesn't mean that either can't be versatile. It just means that each excels in what he was bred to do.

What many have said here is very true. Labs and GSP are different in their styles, temperments and excel in different things.

I've seen a lot of both, and owned several of each. All have been good hunters, great companions and part of my family.



A great dog brings a whole different enjoyment to hunting; a hunting enjoyment unfound any other way.

Conversely, I have had the displeasure of hunting with absolutely terrible dogs of both breeds, some from the same litters as mine. Nothing worse than a day afield or in a blind with a knothead dog.

The difference, IMO, is the comittment the OWNER has to train the dog and get it as much experience as possible. Breeding buys you potential. Only way to fufill that potential is to put the time in to get the dog on birds and train. Don't put in the time and all the potential in the world is wasted.

I have been blessed with exactly one dog that I'd consider a great hunter. What separated her from the rest was intense desire, even as a pup. She was a machine. I did my part and got her on birds year round, and by the time she was 3 it was amazing to watch: put the gun on my shoulder and follow.

Which is better? That's up to you to decide and up to you to have it live up to its potential.

BTW, best two hunting dogs I ever saw were GSPs. Not even close.

-nosualc

I just actually want to thank everyone that hs commented... I am in the exact same boat as to being between these two dogs... I hunt upland more so will likely get the GSP to start with but thin maybe two or three years later getting a lab with some pointing history in it...

would the lab be easier to train if it got to work behind the GSP? I assume it could still pull waterfowling duty as well?

i think you either read carelessly or fail to comprehend what you read...

as to the bomb and drug dogs, it has way more to do with temperament than nose...

Point being that if a breed has a good enough nose to find a ounce of weed wrapped in a pound of bacon there nose is good enough to find a bird.


When you state that "this has everything to do with the eager to please nature of the labs and less to do with their bird finding and hunting ability..." it would appear that you are talking about the ability to smell the birds as that is how dogs find birds. If I am mistaken, what do you mean about the ability to find birds.

for starters, i said it was about other things and not bird finding ability that count... go back and read it again...

just about any dog, including the pomeranian and the chihuahua can use it's nose well enough to find pot or birds... nose and scenting ability are not what makes for a good dog...

in the case of most labs, their drive to hunt seasoned with their desire to please their human makes for a tremendously useful animal...

add in a slick burr free coat that's just about dense enough to keep them going in about any watrer or weather condition...

i feel that most hunters will see and get more shots at game with a lab than just about any other type of bird dog