Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns honest question on double guns...

Why did some double guns evolve with 2 triggers and some with 1.

I read recently a statement on chokes for double guns...

The fellow said he would choose 2 different chokes if the gun had 2 triggers.

But only 1 choke ie mod/mod if the gun had 1 trigger and selector switch???

The single trigger came after the two-triggers. It was an evolution so you don't have to change your hand position or move your hand slightly. Wkhen you change triggers, it changes the length of pull slightly.

I've never seen a double with the same choke on both barrels. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a double. A lot of them come full/modified, but with modern choke tubes you can change that.

The shooter can determine which barrel (and which choke) fires first on a single trigger gun by using the selector, which is usually on the safety. Then the other barrel is by default auto-selected, and it fires when you go for a second shot.

Older single trigger less expensive guns didn't have a manual selector. The right barrel fired first (I think) then the other.

The single or double trigger debate on shotguns has gone on longer than the .270W/.30-06 debate.

Not that hard to lean to use a double trigger with a little practice and a modicum of dexterity. The double trigger is without a doubt the quickest way to select a different barrel if so desired. Have yet to see a single trigger with some type of barrel selector that is not only more difficult to use but that at sometime will not hangup in the middle and will leave one unable to fire either barrel. You either have to push or pull something before or after releasing the safety before you can go to work and it will take more than a little dexterity and practice to get quick or efficient in doing so. However, double trigger shotguns have gone to the same place as many good old designs of the past and probably will never be brought back to being an option except on the most expensive shotguns.

The practicality of the hand changing/lop debate is subject to argument, but you will find those on both side that believe it is a valid or weak point. I believe it is a weak argument. The movement of my trigger finger to the second trigger is unconscious and doesn't cause me to change my grip on the stock. Combine this with the natural body movement that goes along with recoil and it is something that I don't notice. But that's just me.

I'm not entirely sure either way, except my grip DOES change with a DT. Unless you have unusally-shaped hands, it simply isn't possible for the LOP not to change, as the LOP is measured. I've got both, and don't see one as faster than the other, since you have to push the safety off anyway.

My single trigger is a Win 23, the Japanese made one. If it's any slower than my DT one, can't tell any difference. I like the looks of the DT with an English stock better, but then the wood is better and doesn't have that bowling-ball finish I dislike, but which the Win has.

On older doubles I have seen them choked Full/Full. These were mostly on heavy shotguns for waterfowl.

Gene L

The main thing is getting the lop correct in the first place. It should be measured off of the front trigger. To long and it will not only feel uncomfortable but will also require more movement. Have it correct and under recoil the hand should move easily and comfortably back to the second trigger with a lop change of little consequence. I guess weither it is of consequence to one and not another is also debateable. Not much different than when a rifles lop is to long as far as comfort. On rifles I like a lop shorter than most to accommodate winter clothing.

I no longer have any double trigger shotguns, but only because I can't afford the really good ones on which it is available.

I'm sure the book Shotguns and Shooting by Michael Mcintosh or another book of his More Shotguns and Shooting will have a chapter re: double vs single triggers.

Most American shotguns used to have a 14" LOP, now they seem a bit longer.

My double trigger gun fits me well, but I had to get 1/2" shaved off the butt. The LOP is now 14 1/4", straight stock.

I think you are correct, especially the mid to high range sxs and o/u.

One of the nice things with the semi-autos today is the many different size recoil pads that are available to mess with lop. The same can be done with an sxs or o/u, but with a nice piece of wood one wants to be careful with who they let cut or add a different recoil pad.

My hand doesn't move when I go to the back trigger.

One key advantage of double trigger guns and even more so on sidelock guns is the reliability issue. With double trigger sidelocks one has basically two independant single-shot guns. If one trigger or lock fails in the field, the gun can still function as a single-shot.

With a single trigger gun a failure means the gun is now a very unwieldy club. This is even more important on double rifles used for dangerous game when attemting to club a charging elephant or rhino to death is a VERY unhealthy thing to do.

The issue of double trigger guns being harder to use due to changing grip or length of pull is a non-issue to me and involves simply getting used to the system. It CAN work in reverse.

I grew up shooting traditional double guns and well remember the trials of using my first single trigger guns. I would automatically slide my finger back to take a second shot......and found the no matter how hard you pull on the inside of a trigger guard, the gun will not fire!!

This also happened sometimes on semi-auto shotguns as well until I trained myself to use a single trigger (I also had to learn not to drop the gun for reloading after the second shot when there were 3-5 shells in the magazine). This wasn't a problem on pump guns as the action of working the pump seemed to re-set my brain, but semi-autos and single trigger doubles gave me fits for a little while.

Your hand position does, though it doesn't move forward or back. The LOP changes, in effect.

There is a reason the second (rear) trigger is normally on the far (left) side of the gun on a double-trigger shotgun. This is so the trigger can be reached WITHOUT shifting your hand much--if at all--when pulling either trigger.

Our trigger finger is a lever, and the fulfrum of the lever in this instance is the joint where the finger jons our hand. If we place our hand in the right place on the grip, we can easily reach our trigger finger forward for the front trigger, or bend it sideways for the rear trigger.

At least this is true if we're pulling the trigger with the pad on the end of our finger, rather than curling our finger around the trigger.

Now, if we have really short fingers, we probably have to grasp the grip of the shotgun further forward to reach the front trigger, then shift our hand back to reach the rear trigger. But if we have normal-sized hands, we should easily be able to pull either trigger without shifting our hand significantly on the grip.

One of the reasons I would like to have a good sxs double trigger gun is that for me they slow me down just enough when a second shot is needed that you take a little time to get back on the bird and not just throw another shot quickly into what is often air as many do with a single trigger. Now if I used one exclusively, perhaps it would become so automatic it may not be the case.

The working of a pump does much the same-for me anyway-along with making one subconsciously go to or point at the bird with the forward movement of the hand as you close the bolt.

Huh?

Your length of pull changes by about 1/4 to 3/8" when you switch triggers since the front trigger is that much ahead of the rear trigger. That's going by the standard way you measure LOP.

No, you're saying my hand changes positions but it doesn't move.

My hand doesn't move, only my finger.

Your finger isn't part of your hand? And how does the length of pull NOT change when you shift triggers?

Contrast the single trigger operation where nothing changes.

I have both, and like both for different reasons. However, I don't deny the hand position changes to access the rear trigger (or front trigger, which ever you chose to shoot first.)

I've shot doubles with twin triggers for many years and I can assure you my hand does not change position on the grip by even a little between shots. And as long as this subject is being discussed, I have to bring up the old myth that "English" style straight grips were developed so as to assist the shooting hand as it moved to and fro from the front trigger to the back one and/or vice-versa. Anybody who shoots a shotgun with double triggers will immediately understand how absurd this theory is.

Your hand may not, but mine does. So do others, it would seem, or there wouldn't be a "myth" about straight hand shotguns.

Maybe Browning should bring back its "twin-single" trigger. The Twin-Single trigger was two trigger gun, but each trigger would function as a single trigger.