Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire shipping w/o insurance to a buyer... lost ... who's liable: Shpper or Buyer

Recently I hve noticed quite a few sellers do not offer insurance -not on this site- when shipping to a buyer. In some cases shpper does not inform buyer: "your $2000 AR10T is shpped w/o insurance" whereas the Buyer thinks insurance IS included and does not think about asking; the buyer believes insuring the AR10T, is a no-brainer


Normally I WILL NOT INTERACT WITH ANY SELLER WHO FAILS TO INSURE A ITEM HE IS SHPPING TO A BUYER! I ask...but many do not!

So the question is: if a Seller ships your gun w/o insurance and item ends up missing who is liable?

The way I look at it, the idiot that didn't insure the gun is liable. He had possesion last. Period.

This is why I will pass up an apparently good deal if the seller has no rating or any poor ratings on an auction.

I always list my stuff with "insured" after "USPS Priority".

I would say the buyer, you can require insurance as part of the sale.
I will not buy a high dollar item with out full insurance and if selling I always insure for full replacement cost. Just a safe way of doing business.

Seller.

Yep. Not insuring is a pretty high risk proposition. Even with insurance, the time involved to complete a claim will likely cause a good bit of stress, all around. Without insurance, a real pickle.

I have sold hundreds of items on ebay and many on these boards. If it is a high dollar item I always just go ahead and insure it and will always do it if the buyer requests it. It is very inexpensive, I cant imagine anyone getting all exercised over the cost of it.

Same.
Having insurance on something you sell is, well, cheap insurance!

Buyer (probably). It's a contract, should be up to the buyer to state his terms on shipping. Either ship it insured or just ship it, the seller has done what was required of him.

By the same token, isn't the contract to receive something for the money. Is it not the seller (who wants money in exchange for his property) to ensure the property gets to the buyer?

Fair to argue that the Buyer has some responsibility to ask/request/require insurance if you deem it important. Any listings, I have made, state that "you should ask any questions prior to bidding."
As a Seller, I rarely have had buyers take the offered insurance, in those cases, my responsibility ends after I pack it properly and get the receipt showing that shipment was made.
In some 700 transactions, over 5 or 6 years, I have had ZERO problems. My feedback on Gunbroker, fleabay, etc, is 100%+.
I have to admit that on some high dollar, irreplaceable items, I insured it simply to CMA, provide proof of delvery and peace of mind.
Lastly, I have heard that actually getting a successful claim out of the Post Office, UPS, etc., is about as rare as manure out of a rocking horse. Be interesting to explore this.

Seller's responsibility.

Seller should be responsible IMO.

The way that I look at it is when I sell something that I want the money that item generates. If I ship without insurance there is a chance that the item will be lost. I would not feel right keeping someones money when they did not get what they paid for. By insuring the item I get the money regardless and piece of mind that I will not be screwing someone over.

I didn't say it well at all - my brain apparently hasn't had it's minimum requirement of caffeine yet. Yes, if the agreement isn't specific seller would probably bear the risk.

I think to be able to prove one party's fault, a request for shipping insurance would have to been made by the buyer, or an offer of insuring the item made by the seller. Other wise I don't know ho you prove (in court) 'well I thought insurance was included or a no brainer'.

That being said I insure everything I sell regardless to cma as others have said. And now request it when purchasing an item. Its worth it. The above was just trying to think about the legalities of the matter. I'm not a laywer nor did I recently stay in a holiday inn so take it for what its worth.

Put in the proper context ... if you ordered a high reloader from Midway USA. It doesn't show. Are you out your money? Of course not. Any reputable business would refund or ship another. Why does the volume of business determine this? When I ship a high value item I include that expense in my price of the item. If an auction sale and I sell for less than I'd like, I CMA by purchasing insurance for my peace of mind.

Now for you buyers out there ... always use PayPal on the Bay and Credit Card off the Bay. If you pay via cash/check, it could be a major hassle to recover funds because no one (financial institution or the Post Office) is on your side. I'm just sayin'

The buyer bought it and it has to be delivered to him. The seller didn't live up to that. Seller is liable.

Yes, the seller is. This was the reason fee bay did away with the insurance option. Their reasoning was, insurance covers the seller, not the buyer. The seller is supposed to return any and all monies if the item does not arrive or arrives damaged. You (the seller) can buy insurance on your dime after an auction ends.

I can see the thinking behind the change. Still who is to say the buyer does not have a change of mind after said item arrives, breaks it, claims damage or it does not arrive. It becomes a he said/he said, did situation. And the way I understand delivery confirmation we all rely on, ONLY shows the package accepted and placed into the USPO computers.

I use click n ship via the USPO web site and this includes free D.C. and a "scan form" option. This is supposed to follow the package right up to a buyers door. And its a free option as well. Click n Ship is great, you get a discount on shipping, can buy insurance on line, do international shipping, everything!

I insure anything over $20.00 and luckily USPO has not lost anything yet.

Seller since the seller made the shipping arrangements and paid for the shipping.

FOB is an old railroad term meaning "free on board" or "freight on board", typically the seller is responsible for the goods until the goods have reach their specified destination.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Free_On_Board

I just went through this as the seller. It's just my opinion, but it seems to me that the shipper has the responsibility to insure. The buyer has already met his obligation to send money. After the seller receives the money, it's his responsibility to ensure that the item is sent to the buyer and that should include insurance. I paid for insurance even though there was nothing mentioned about it in our correspondence. It was inexpensive and seemed prudent.

KC

I really don't think the seller is responsible. As a long time eBay seller I always offered insurance and put in the caveat that once the package leaves my hands, I cannot be responsible for what happens to it!.

Unfortunately, the staff at eBay has taken a decidedly anti-seller stance and one of the results is that I cannot even OFFER insurance. Their idea is that it's the seller's responsibility which is fine IF the seller is the only one that touches the package. In the real world though, that assumption is ludicrous.

When I ship a box it is first handled by a few people in the local post office and is sent to the main office where a few people handle it there. It then gets loaded onto an airplane or barge and goes to Seattle where it is handled again and sent to the local post office. Yep, handled again and put on a truck and driven to next location where it's...OK, you get the idea.

So, although I packed the box quite well and some moron drops it off the loading dock, I'm still responsible and am out the money? Nope. That is total BS and it is just one more small reason why prices keep going up. People want something for nothing.

Ok, rant over. Sorry but this one hit a nerve with me.