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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I see Bristoe has awoken from his drunken stupor, or maybe the cloud of marijuana smoke, and is participating.
I keep the half wit on ignore, but I am sure that his normal 'kill the evil JOOOOOOOO screed has not changed much. Yae,....stick a matso ball in Steve_NO's mouth while you spinnin' him around in that kosher square dance routine,... It's dinnatime,... ,..and wipe ya forehead with a napkin,...that fur birthday cake on ya head is makin' ya sweat.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Ketel on the rocks? Your wife must have had a couple of nice settlements this week.
It's dinnertime?? When did you go early-bird specials,old man?
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Tracker
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So if the government of the United States is in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, why did they feel the need to state:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
Because it was a treaty with a Moslem bey, a tributary vassal of the Ottoman empire, for whom it would have been a capital offense with his boss the Ottoman emperor to make a treaty with a "Christian" state, even while under bombardment. You really have to have some background knowledge or google just makes you look like an idiot when you overinterpret data. And what we put in recitals in treaties has absolutely nothing to do with US domestic demographics or politics. The US was a self-consciously Christian nation, more or less tolerant of other faiths, until the courts decided it wasn't. I kind of figure you look like a liar when you recommend ignore what they say and do if it happens to cast a negative light on them. Kind of like your 1989 semi-auto ban isn't so bad because one can still buy items banned by it made before 1989(oh and let's not forget it's (R) basis,) but somehow the 1994 semi-auto ban was pure evil (it was (D) based after all) despite the fact it did the same crap as the 1989 ban (you could of course by anything made prior to 1994) only doing it to US manufactured weapons. I can't think of a single group or individual that wouldn't look like a saint when applying your ignore the bad, notice only what looks good logic.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You're still here? Good grief... I thought your pathetic ass was tossed. Go have a donut you worthless piece of schit!
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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You're still here? Good grief... I thought your pathetic ass was tossed. Go have a donut you worthless piece of schit! Why don't you at least try to match him in fair debate before resorting to the grade school tactics?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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What a vulgar disposition.
"Knowledge is good"
� Emil Faber
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
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So if the government of the United States is in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, why did they feel the need to state:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
Because it was a treaty with a Moslem bey, a tributary vassal of the Ottoman empire, for whom it would have been a capital offense with his boss the Ottoman emperor to make a treaty with a "Christian" state, even while under bombardment. You really have to have some background knowledge or google just makes you look like an idiot when you overinterpret data. And what we put in recitals in treaties has absolutely nothing to do with US domestic demographics or politics. The US was a self-consciously Christian nation, more or less tolerant of other faiths, until the courts decided it wasn't. I kind of figure you look like a liar when you recommend ignore what they say and do if it happens to cast a negative light on them. I should have figured you were too freaking stupid to grasp what recitals in a treaty are. I don't usually bother to try to educate your ignorant ass, and I won't waste my time again. I thought you and your bff Wismon had been bounced....sorry to see it isn't so.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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What a vulgar disposition.  Sycamore
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Let's see, according to Steve what they stated (for public consumption) in that getting involved with foreign affairs was bad and they were whoring around with foreign countries back then behind the scenes and that was good. Now, we find out that behind the scenes they were claiming the US was not based on Christian principles with their counterparts, but we are supposed to believe that what they were stating publicly on Christianity was the legit version. Damn hard to keep up with the face saving double standards.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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you really shouldn't even try to write down things that complicated, Jason. It's embarrassing to watch, and you might hurt yourself.
if that was an attempt at an argument, it only demonstrated your lack of understanding of that which you were trying to discuss.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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[/quote]
the only way they could have avoided what you call a land grab would have been to deliberately lose a war of annihilation begun by the Arabs, instead of winning it and surviving.
they have been trying to get rid of their parasitic "Palestinian" wards.....cut Gaza loose years ago and in return got a barrage of missiles and had to go back in. [/quote]
It really is that simple.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Hardlly complicated. On any topic where you support a given group, if anyone mentions the misdeeds by that group you attack the person passing along the story among other attempts to blow off the negative.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What goes on thousands of miles from our shore lines should be none of our business either way, assuming Americans aren't being targeted. We should trade with, and have friendly relations towards all, and wish ill will towards none. Then you're saying we shouldn't have gotten into WWII then! If the US had not gotten into WWI, there would never have been a WWII. Wilson broke the old Wesphalian system, and set up the conditions for WWII (at least in the ETO). As far as the war in Asia, it can be credibly argued that TR did much to set up Japanese expansionism.
Be the person your dog thinks you are.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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you must have missed it but the Jews pulled out of Gaza years ago....it's run by Hamas...you know, the Iranian backed terrorist group? The Israeli governement has no presence in Gaza and no contact with individual Gazans....they have their own "Palestinian" government.
and there is no blockade except of contraband... like rockets and artillery, which the Gazans have a habit of shooting into Israel.
And snack food. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65820E20100609Here's a list of good that are permitted to be imported. Of interest, note the dates of some of the items. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/05_05_10_gazaimports.pdfThe Israelis allowed the importation of items like kitchenware, wood, clothes, shoes etc only in 2010.
Be the person your dog thinks you are.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Israel's GDP is more than 200 Billion US, it's foreign aid from us, which is less than we give the Arab states, is about $3 billion, and we get the benefit of their intel and their upgrades to our systems.
If you want to look at it from a pure cost benefit analysis, we get far more benefit from Arab countries. And whatever intel we get from Israel is partially offset by the intel they steal from us. According to Time magazine (5/19/97), the US ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk, last year "complained privately to the Israeli government about heavy-handed surveillance by Israeli intelligence agents, who had been following American-embassy employees in Tel Aviv and searching the hotel rooms of visiting US officials."
***
Three relevant documents were made public in early 1996:
1) A General Accounting Office report "Defense Industrial Security: Weaknesses in US Security Arrangements With Foreign-Owned Defense Contractors" found that according to intelligence sources "Country A" (identified by intelligence sources as Israel, Washington Times, 2/22/96) "conducts the most aggressive espionage operation against the United States of any US ally." The Jerusalem Post (8/30/96) quoted the report, "Classified military information and sensitive military technologies are high-priority targets for the intelligence agencies of this country."
The report described "An espionage operation run by the intelligence organization responsible for collecting scientific and technologic information for [Israel] paid a US government employee to obtain US classified military intelligence documents." The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (Shawn L. Twing, April 1996) noted that this was "a reference to the 1985 arrest of Jonathan Pollard, a civilian US naval intelligence analyst who provided Israel's LAKAM [Office of Special Tasks] espionage agency an estimated 800,000 pages of classified US intelligence information."
The GAO report also noted that "Several citizens of [Israel] were caught in the United States stealing sensitive technology used in manufacturing artillery gun tubes."
2) An Office of Naval Intelligence document, "Worldwide Challenges to Naval Strike Warfare" reported that "US technology has been acquired [by China] through Israel in the form of the Lavi fighter and possibly SAM [surface-to-air] missile technology." Jane's Defense Weekly (2/28/96) noted that "until now, the intelligence community has not openly confirmed the transfer of US technology [via Israel] to China." The report noted that this "represents a dramatic step forward for Chinese military aviation." (Flight International, 3/13/96)
3) The Defense Investigative Service circulated a memo in late 1995 warning US military contractors that "Israel aggressively collects [US] military and industrial technology." The report stated that Israel obtains information using "ethnic targeting, financial aggrandizement, and identification and exploitation of individual frailties" of US citizens. (Washington Post, 1/30/96) (This report was criticized by several groups for allegedly implying that Americans Jews were particularly suspect.)
***
From New York Times December 22, 1985, by David K. Shipler:
Many American officials are convinced of Israel's ability, on a routine basis, to obtain sensitive information about this county's secret weapons, advanced technology and internal policy deliberations in Washington...
The F.B.I. knew of at least a dozen incidents in which American officials transferred classified information to the Israelis, [former Assistant Director of the F.B.I.] Mr. [Raymond] Wannal said. The Justice Department did not prosecute.
"When the Pollard case broke, the general media and public perception was that this was the first time this had ever happen," said John Davitt, former chief of the Justice Department's internal security section. "No, that's not true at all. The Israeli intelligence service, when I was in the Justice Department, [1950-1980] was the second most active in the United States, to the Soviets."
***
From "The Samson Option," by Seymour M. Hersh
[Page numbers are from the Vintage paperback edition, 1992.]
The name "Mega" in the recent Washington Post story may be noteworthy:
[I]llicitly obtained intelligence was flying so voluminously from LAKAM into Israeli intelligence that a special code name, JUMBO, was added to the security markings already on the documents. There were strict orders, [Ari] Ben-Menashe recalled: "Anything marked JUMBO was not supposed to be discussed with your American counterparts." ("The Samson Option," pg 295)
After Jonathan Pollard was arrested for selling secrets to Israel, the Israeli leadership denied all knowledge. Hersh provides several sources indicating that they did know. Here's one:
The top leadership, of course, knew what was going on. One former Israeli intelligence official recalled that Peres and Rabin, both very sophisticated in the handling of intelligence, were quick to ask, as the official put it, "Where are we getting this stuff?" They were told, the Israeli added, that Israeli intelligence 'has a penetration into the U.S. intelligence community.' Both men let it go. No one said: 'Stop it here and now.'" ("The Samson Option," pg 296)
One of the little-known aspects of the Pollard case is that information was passed along by the Israelis to the Soviets:
For Shamir, the Israeli added, the relaying of the Pollard information to the Soviets was his way of demonstrating that Israel could be a much more dependable and important collaborator in the Middle East than the "fickle" Arabs: "What Arab could give you this?" ("The Samson Option," pg 299)
The Pollard information helped in Israel's ability to exercise "The Samson Option" -- to threaten the Soviet Union, and therefore the US, with nuclear war if they didn't get their way in developments in the Mideast. Disclosure of information to the Soviets also apparently led the Soviets to track down US agents:
One senior American intelligence official confirmed that there have been distinct losses of human and technical intelligence collection ability inside the Soviet Union that have been attributed, after extensive analysis, to Pollard. "The Israeli objective [in the handling of Pollard] was to gather what they could and let the Soviets know that they have a strategic capability--for their survival [the threat of a nuclear strike against the Soviets] and to get their people out [of the Soviet Union]," one former CIA official said. "Where it hurts us is our agents being rolled up and our ability to collect technical intelligence being shut down. When the Soviets found out what's being passed"--in the documents supplied by Pollard to the Israelis--"they shut down the source." ("The Samson Option," pg 300)
***
A portion of a 1979 CIA internal report, "Israel: Foreign Intelligence and Security Services" (from The Nation, "I Spy, You Spy, We All Spy," December 14, 1985, by Alexander Cockburn) included the following:
In one instance Shin Beth [the Israeli internal security agency] tried to penetrate the US Consulate General in Jerusalem through a clerical employee who was having an affair with a Jerusalem girl. They rigged a fake abortion case against the employee in an unsuccessful effort to recruit him. Before this attempt at blackmail, they had tried to get the Israeli girl to elicit information from her boyfriend.
Two other important targets in Israel are the US Embassy in Tel Aviv and United Nations Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO) with headquarters in Jerusalem. There have been two or three crude efforts to recruit Marine guards for monetary reward. In the cases involving UNTSO personnel, the operations involved intimidation and blackmail.
In 1954, a hidden microphone planted by the Israelis was discovered in the Office of the US Ambassador in Tel Aviv. In 1956, telephone taps were found connected to two telephones in the residence of the US military attache.
***
In March 1978, Stephen Bryen, then a Senate Foreign Relations Committee staffer, was overheard in a DC hotel offering confidential documents to top Israeli military officials. The F.B.I. found Bryen's fingerprints on the documents in question, and he admitted to having obtained them the night before the meeting with the Israelis. Bryen was forced to quit his job, but was never indicted. He was later brought on to the Defense Department as a deputy to Reagan Administration Assistant Secretary Richard Pearle. There Bryen was in charge of such matters as overseeing technology transfers in the Mideast. (See "The Armageddon Network" (Amana Books) by Michael Saba, an officer of the National Association of Arab Americans when he overheard Bryen offer the documents to the Israelis.)
As late as 1992, Stephen Bryen was serving on board of the pro-Israeli Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs while continuing as a paid consultant -- with security clearance -- on exports of sensitive US technology. (Wall Street Journal, 1/22/92, Edward T. Pound and David Rogers)
***
* "The Lavon Affair": In 1954, Israeli agents attacked Western targets in Egypt in an apparent attempt to upset US-Egyptian relations. Israeli defense minister Pinchas Lavon was removed from office, though many think real responsibility lay with David Ben-Gurion.
* In 1965, Israel apparently illegally obtained enriched uranium from NUMEC corporation. (Washington Post, 6/5/86, Charles R. Babcock, "US an Intelligence Target of the Israelis, Officials Say.")
* In 1967, Israel attacked the USS Liberty, an intelligence gathering vessel flying a US flag, killing 34 crew members. See "Assault on the Liberty," by James M. Ennes, Jr. (Random House).
* In 1985 Richard Smyth, the owner of MILCO was indicted on charges of smuggling nuclear timing devices to Israel (Washington Post, 10/31/86).
* April 24, 1987 Wall Street Journal headline: "Role of Israel in Iran-Contra Scandal Won't be Explored in Detail by Panels"
* In 1992, the Wall Street Journal reported that Israeli agents apparently tried to steal Recon Optical Inc's top-secret airborne spy-camera system. (1/17/92, Edward T. Pound and David Rogers).
* In early 1997, an Army mechanical engineer, David A. Tenenbaum, told investigators that he "inadvertently" gave classified military information on missile systems and armored vehicles to Israeli officials (New York Times, 2/20/97).
* For detailed analysis of the Israel-US relationship, including covert operations, see "Taking Sides: America's Secret Relations with a Militant Israel" by Stephen Green (Amana Books). Also see "Dangerous Liaisons" by Andrew and Leslie Cockburn (Harper Collins).
* For information on economic espionage see "War By Other Means: Economic Espionage in America" by Wall Street Journal reporter John Fialka (Norton). Also see "Israel's Unauthorized Arms Transfers" in Foreign Policy, Summer 1995, by Prof. Duncan Clarke of American University.
Be the person your dog thinks you are.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Remember "The Five Dancing Israelis?" After 9/11 the authorities received several very similar reports of "middle eastern looking men" who had, at various locations, set up video recording equipment trained on the Twin Towers in advance of the collisions. The reports were all similar, and all indicated that when the planes crashed into the buildings, these men started dancing and high-fiving each other. One was even heard loudly proclaiming: "Finally Americans will understand what it is like to be an Israeli." Enough information was given to authorities (including descriptions of their vehicles) for them to track these men down. Turned out all of them were Israeli Mossad agents. They were released, being considered an investigatory dead end since they were not Muslims.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
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Remember "The Five Dancing Israelis?" After 9/11 the authorities received several very similar reports of "middle eastern looking men" who had, at various locations, set up video recording equipment trained on the Twin Towers in advance of the collisions. The reports were all similar, and all indicated that when the planes crashed into the buildings, these men started dancing and high-fiving each other. One was even heard loudly proclaiming: "Finally Americans will understand what it is like to be an Israeli." Enough information was given to authorities (including descriptions of their vehicles) for them to track these men down. Turned out all of them were Israeli Mossad agents. They were released, being considered an investigatory dead end since they were not Muslims. Cue the Twilight Zone theme music.....the troofers are out again.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Joined: May 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
If the US had not gotten into WWI, there would never have been a WWII. Wilson broke the old Wesphalian system, and set up the conditions for WWII (at least in the ETO).
As far as the war in Asia, it can be credibly argued that TR did much to set up Japanese expansionism.
I'm pretty sure the Jews were behind that too. Because I'm pretty sure I saw on Stormfront that Mossad agents were spotted hanging around Versaille while they were drafting that treaty, and of course it's well known that the Rothschilds owned TR. Yeah, it all makes sense, once you understand.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,752 Likes: 4 |
I still don't see why you treat with the lunatics Steve. 
Sam......
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