Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters double rifle stock question

If I were converting a double shotgun to double rifle from the action out, what should I think about as to the stock.

Is there really any difference between a SxS shotgun stock versus a SxS rifle stock?

Should there be?

Since I'm starting with a stockless action, I'll build the stock from scratch but I'd like to be aware of anything I should before cutting wood.

Also, being a neighborly guy, regardless of the regulation idiosyncrasies, I'd like to be able to build for ambidextrous use (I'm a lefty) in the event some odd right hander wants to let her go.

Function over beauty in this case.

Not all that much, especially if you're going to he shooting iron sights. Some people prefer the rifle stock to be a little shorter than the shotgun, but the other dimensions will be very similar, including any cast.

Open sights for sure.

mild caliber as doubles go, but shorter would always allow for more padding in the event I really become a pansy in my old age.

Would also allow use by the daughter and grandson. And wife for that matter.

No cast for stated reasons.

all the ones I've shot have a thicker wrist than is typical on a shotgun (recoil).

also, make sure the grip is fairly open.

What are you building as this has always been on my backburner list to do.

It will be the primordial North American hog and deer gun.

I will be happy to share the details once she's done.

Oh, and Happy Birthday by the way...

Thanks for the Happy BDay, I'm wanting to build a 45/70 for the same reason..

Does this conversion require more than sleeving the barrel?

Most 12 ga. are good for 3.5 tons of pressure, which is pretty low. I suppose you could download a 45-70, but would think with even factory loads you'd stretch the action out a bit in short order.

I think, sir, relative to the pressure you quote above for a shotgun, that the "pressure" you reference fails to take into account the other factor, bolt thrust from the large rim base of a shotshell. If you do the math with the size of the base of the shotshell and the base of the 45-70, you'll find the SAAMI pressure of the 45-70 will be more than adequetely handled.

As an example, the EAA/Baikal/Remington double rifle is chambered in 30-06 and 45-70. The '06 operates at much higher pressures than the 45-70, and obviously operates at even higher pressures than the shotgun. Yet the Baikal action, the Model 43, is commonly used as a shotgun action. And EAA and others sell cartridge inserts to convert 12 ga to 45-70, .444, and other loads with far higher operating pressures than shotshells. Yet, they are safe and used everyday. Its all in the bolt thrust, or lack thereof.

So I would doubt greatly the statement that you would 'stretch" the action on most fairly modern shotgun actions converted to low pressure rounds like the 45-70. A good read on the subject is "Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions" by Ellis Brown. It would seem foolhardy to me to proceed to actual building of your double rifle without the guidance this book provides. The level of experience shows in Mr Brown's book and would take one a lifetime to duplicate it. Reading and following the instructions in the book should substantially reduce first time errors.

Yes. a monobloc is being made from scratch and barrels threaded to it.

Got the book over two years ago. Been re-reading portions of it on a weekly basis ever since. Money well spent.

Even went so far as to research the thin wall cylinder hoop stress equation and derive a thick wall solution, just 'cause'.

The only thing I can think of is that a lot of double guns have cast-off, generally for a right-handed shooter. So if you're duplicating a stock, you should be aware of this. If you're making your own stock and not duplicating one, shouldn't be a problem.

Pictures I have seen of double rifles show a cheek piece.

This could be done on either a left or right handed stock.

Without using an adjustable comb, which is feasable, I don't see a good way of making it fit both a left and right handed shooter, without making two different stocks.

Many double rifles have a cheekpiece because people who buy double rifles expect all the nifty extras. But there really isn't any function to the cheekpiece. If there was, every fine British side-by-side shotgun would also have a cheekpiece.

I thought the cheekpiece would have more to do with the sights mounted between the barrels, and a double rifle would be aimed and the cheek piece would aid in lining up the sights.

A shotgun is not aimed, but is pointed, and the only thing a cheekpiece would do for a shotgun would make it fit better if the stock had a lot of cast off (or cast on).

Competition shotgun shooters, at least trap shooters, which is the only one I have experience in, are very carefull about positioning the gun at the exact same spot each time, both on their cheek and their shoulder.

I can understand that a cheek piece on a trap gun would be useless, and probably on a field gun as well, but it seems a cheekpiece on a rifle would aid in lining up the sights.

It seems that it would aid in lining up the sights whether on an iron sighted double rifle, or on a scope or iron sighted single barrel rifle.

Although, I admit that I have fired thousands of cartridges through both .22 rimfire and centerfire (M94, and military rifles) that lacked a cheekpiece and I did not feel I was handicapped.

I guess it would boil down to what it takes to make the gun fit so that the sights can be aligned precisely, or the shotgun pointed to the same place for shot after shot, as in competition and/or hunting.

Buttstock fit with the cheek is almost entirely due to comb height and thickness, since they control where the eye ends up behind the barrels, whether shooting a shotgun or a rifle.

Since a cheekpiece is below the top line of the stock, it doesn't do anything much for stock fit. In fact all it normally will do it make some shooters tilt their head a little more, which may or may not do any good for eye-barrel alignment. Which is why, as I previously stated, a cheekpiece is almost entirely cosmetic.

In fact, ideally there is no difference between the way the buttstock fits for a shotgun or rifle--and especially a double-barreled rifle. One of the great advantages of a side-by-side double is that it can be shot without looking at the sights pretty accurately out to 25 yards or so--IF the stock fits the shooter. You just shoot it like you would a shotgun, by mounting the rifle and pointing it like a shotgun.

Yeah, I'll scratch it out from some of the lumber on the farm here. Probably an old maple log that's been sitting for a while.

Next question: straight grip or pistol grip for a double rifle?

What are the arguments pro or con?

I've shot shotguns with either and maybe I'm just not finicky enough to have a real preference.

Never seen a double rifle with a straight grip. Go with the pistol grip.

I have seen double rifles made on a 12g frame with the barrels cut at about 3" and sleeved. It has been reported that it will work if well executed. A monoblock will eliminate a lot of anxiety every time you pull the trigger.

Doing 16gages and keeping the pressures low. Figure I may even regulate for black powder loads. My intent is to keep max range under 100 yards, with regulation in the 40-50 yard range.

I doubt you'll see me in Afrika, so nothing wildly exotic caliber wise.

No anxiety here, after a few proof loads, I'll get VA over to fire a hundred rounds or so