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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069 |
I find myself once again pondering an optics choice for the Borden 280AI. So far it has worn a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 and a Nikon Buckmaster 4-12x50. The Zeiss was a flop(combination of deteriorating eyesight and not very good light gathering at "prime time". Thinking the latter was just a trade off for the high magnification). The Nikon has served my needs quite well. Just wish it did a wee bit better gathering light late in the evenings when these highly pressured whitetails move. I dont think my "ideal" scope is a fairy tale. I just havent had much luck finding one that meets my wants. My requirements(these aint optional nor open for discussion. I have my reasons). First requirement is NOT a Leupold. I just dont get along with their scopes. While they may make a great product they just arent for ME. Power range/obj 3or4-12x50. Reticle either a std duplex or a #4. As my eyes get worse Im starting to worry more about the reticle staying visible till the very end of legal shooting light. That may mean a tad bit more target coverage, but I ain't shooting competition with it. MUST be parallax adjustable. Price range max of $750. Does something that meets the above criteria even exist? If so...I'm all ears.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,201
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,201 |
Try the new Minox. You can get a 3-15x42 or the 4-20x50 for less than $750. I just got one in today in 3-9x40. It seems like a very nice scope and at least on par with my Conquests and better then my VX3's.
I've got a Leica 3.5-14x42 waiting to go on my Borden 280AI.
Lee
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,653 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,653 Likes: 1 |
I find myself once again pondering an optics choice for the Borden 280AI. So far it has worn a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 and a Nikon Buckmaster 4-12x50. The Zeiss was a flop(combination of deteriorating eyesight and not very good light gathering at "prime time". Thinking the latter was just a trade off for the high magnification). The Nikon has served my needs quite well. Just wish it did a wee bit better gathering light late in the evenings when these highly pressured whitetails move. I dont think my "ideal" scope is a fairy tale. I just havent had much luck finding one that meets my wants. My requirements(these aint optional nor open for discussion. I have my reasons). First requirement is NOT a Leupold. I just dont get along with their scopes. While they may make a great product they just arent for ME. Power range/obj 3or4-12x50. Reticle either a std duplex or a #4. As my eyes get worse Im starting to worry more about the reticle staying visible till the very end of legal shooting light. That may mean a tad bit more target coverage, but I ain't shooting competition with it. MUST be parallax adjustable. Price range max of $750. Does something that meets the above criteria even exist? If so...I'm all ears. I think darn near all scope are a compromise of some sort. Weight, reticle, number of x's, objective, PRICE, size, etc., etc. And nothing starts more debate and controversy here than finding/owning the perfect chunk of glass. If the Zeiss in the 44mm wasn't making your socks go up and down relative to light gathering, I'm not sure how much a 42/44/50mm in comparable glass (in another brand) is going to get you. Certainly you will see some very slight gains - dependent on brand and what works for your peepers. But based on what you're describing; able to see the reticle and having wonderful light gathering capability, I'd be looking for a little higher end scope with a reticle on the first focal plane. The bad thing is that it will likely surpass your budget but with some patience you can generally run into a decent used product.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,469
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197 |
http://www.eurooptic.com/Schmidt-Bender/product~description~Schmidt_Bender_Zenith_3-12x50_A7_Rifle_Scope.htm
Spendy but pretty good....make that real good.
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,477
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,477 |
I'd Look For Used Swarvoski AV in 4-12-50mm. At 13.4Oz Its Light.And No Worries when The Light Goes Down, They Only Get Better. All Mine Are 4A's. IMO Best Scope Ever Made..
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 710
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 710 |
If you liked the Nikon why not step up to the Monarch series?
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069 |
If nikon would offer the monarch 3-12 in a 50mm Id be on it like flies on a dead animal.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069 |
I dont believe the swaro is a sf/ao scope. That is a must have. Id even consider uping the ante a tad on price or power range. Ive given thought to the weaver superslam 3-15x50 but have not located one to actually put my hands on. The bushnell 2.5-16x50 6500 has also crossed my mind but after reading the posts here of their nightmarish warranty service i am inclined to shy away. Just like the Burris. Wont go that route again either. If the glass is good enuf a slight jump in the power range isnt that big a deal. With the nikon tho..12x is about all i want to fool with. Had their 5.5-16 monarch and that just dont cut it at last light.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
I suspect alot of the problem is your eyes. As we age, we usually start loosing our low ligh capability. Most guys in their 50's can't use anything more than a 4mm exit pupil. So, if it gets dark enough, nothing will work.
You've already tried some very high quality scopes. And they haven't worked.
Why the insistance on a side focus or AO adjustment ? They rob the image of brightness, and they do almost nothing for image clarity. Removing a tiny bit a parallax and taking the time to do that, makes no sense in a big game situation unless we are talking about a really long shot. E
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069 |
For once in my life, I'll agree with something you posted. My eyes are a ton of the problem. Glaucoma, macular degeneration, astigmatism. As for the AO...just a personal preference. Well just something I have always had on scopes for the last 15 years or so. I do like a scope with a 12x high end. Seems to be the perfect medium between getting my rifle really dialed in providing my blind self with a decent sight picture late in the evening when the animals move. 3 years ago the Buckmaster was plenty bright. This past season I noticed I had a little more difficulty making things out at last light. So Im looking for something with damn good glass, 12x on the high end, 50mm obj that wont totally break the bank. And if I can find somewhere that actually has an employee competent enough to tell me the scope I am looking through is Leupolds latest and greatest with their twilight lens system, I'll give them another look. Just know I gotta get something on ol betsy before whitetail season opens.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
I suspect alot of the problem is your eyes. As we age, we usually start loosing our low ligh capability. Most guys in their 50's can't use anything more than a 4mm exit pupil. So, if it gets dark enough, nothing will work.
You've already tried some very high quality scopes. And they haven't worked.
Why the insistance on a side focus or AO adjustment ? They rob the image of brightness, and they do almost nothing for image clarity. Removing a tiny bit a parallax and taking the time to do that, makes no sense in a big game situation unless we are talking about a really long shot. E Along those lines, how many times have we read where folks are having difficulty seeing the differences between A and B ? I really have to wonder if what they are really saying is that their eyes are aging. That is not meant to be critical cause it is just a fact of life. Just something to keep in mind the next time you all place some weight on a report coming from an AARP member. Hopefully, I'll be there one day myself.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
I can suggest two things you might try when you select a scope be it whatever brand.
Focus both the reticle and the image for your prefered range. I'd go with a longer range, like 300 yds. All scopes can be so focused. When the light gets bad, that, and range is what you loose.
Whatever the objective size, try using as much magnification as you can to see any of the image with. A darker image can often show you more detail than a brighter one at a lower magnifcation. This is because it reduces the range to the target. Almost like walking up to the target for a closer shot.
Good luck. If you need some ideas as to how to focus the scope, send me a PM. E
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Kahles 3-10x50 CL with SF ..can get them for 599 from CDNN
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,763 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,763 Likes: 5 |
You spent the money on a top of the line rifle. Why not on a optic for on top of it. ![[Linked Image]](http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/dave7mm/huntbike2009128.jpg) The 3-12x50 S&B PMII. Alex Roy will send you one to look at and as long as you dont monkey it up.You can always send it back. My take on it is that older eyes need the best. dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 56 |
+1 on the Kahles 3-10x50 CL with SF. Also +1 on your eyes being a major factor in the problem and that aging eyes need the best optic obtainable. I've gone through the same evolution with scopes and hunting rifles in the past few years. Believe me when I say the day you look through a quality optic that matches your eyes will be the light at the end of the tunnel!!
Best of luck
Model 70 Forever
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,069 |
If I had the coin, there's no doubt my rifle would be wearing a S&B. But my budget is limited due to the fact that I have 2 rifles to scope. One will be getting a Zeiss Conquest. Thats my wife's rifle. But I am undecided as to what to put on the 280AI.
Crossed Arrows Archery LLC Authorized Obsession Bows Dealer Custom Strings/Tuning www.crossedarrowsarcheryllc.comBlack Eagle Arrows Pro Staff, Montana Black Gold Shooting Staff, Dead Center Archery Products Shooting Staff
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 305
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 305 |
Ok here's my 2 cents.
You have already tried some of the better mid-price-range optics. You aren't satisfied with them. Try another mid-priced optic will most likely provided similar results.
My father is 60, the last few years he's really been griping about scopes. He has Glaucoma, and macular digeneration etc. He recently purchased a Swarovski Scope and says: "I can see like I used to be able to" So take that for what its worth.. Save up some more, talk to doug at cameraland, watch for specials.. My suggestion is buy a Swarovski scope.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,327
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,327 |
+1 on that recommendation.... Swarovski or Kahles... You can't go wrong!!!
I take a lickin', and SOMEHOW, Keep On Tickin'!!!! 
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,394 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
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I just put a swaro AV 3-10x42 om my 280AI, I'm liking it so far, I'll know more after this hunting season, but it fits the pre 64 M70 quite well.
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