Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting .30/06 or .300WM

I used to kill elk with a 30-06, Now i kill elk with a 300 win mag.

My point with the FMJ�s, which seems to have escaped you, is that a simple hole is not enough � adequate destruction of vital function must accompany the hole in order for it to be effective.

You experiences are certainly different than mine. I�ve seen a number of elk escape after being holed in the thoracic cavity with hunting bullets, including .243 Win and .30-06 in two particularly disturbing instances. The .243 Win incident was less than 200 yards and the .30-06 was around 400. In both instances the elk easily escaped the hunter. Over the years I�ve also come upon several elk that were already dead, holed by someone elk and not recovered with cartridge and caliber and range unknown. Again, simply creating a hole, even with a hunting bullet, is not enough � adequate destruction of vital function is also required.

While I�m sure we would both agree that placement comes first, your 1500fps argument leads to the conclusion that a 60g Partition from a .22-250 at 3600fps and a 180g Partition from a .300 Win Mag at 3100fps are equivalent at 500 yards. Both cartridges are legal for elk in some states, but do you really believe that the 60g Partition at a remaining 1724fps and 396fpe will cause the same damage as the 180g Partition at a remaining 2192fps and 1920fpe? I don�t and I wouldn�t hunt elk with my .22-250 even if it was legal here in Colorado.

At some point the incremental differences become important. A .30-30 is not a .300 Savage is not a .308 Win is not a .30-06 is not a .300 WM. That said, they will all kill elk easily in the right circumstances. While I have no problem hunting elk with my .30-06�s, I do not delude myself that they are as capable as my .300 Win Mag. Close is only close, it is not the same.

I guess this proves that one shoud not shoot an elk that is standing behind 12 water jugs.

BTW, being in the nuclear bomb busines for 35 + years,critcal mass is what is required to start/sustain a chain reaction.Other elements are added to increase the yield.When the nuclear test ban treaty came into effect,DOD and DOE both tried to develope weapons and test devices for low yield tests that could not be detected using slightly over critical mass. After much testing, the results were that repetitive yields could not be achieved satisfactorily in the half -5 kilaton range. Step that up to 25 kilaton to 4-5 megaton and you can do a reasonable job of predicting yield within 10%

Yes incremental differences make a difference,but when does one draw the line as to where to stop. One could always say that a 300mag is insufficinet to kill an elk at 1500yds and there fore,no one should hunt with anything less than a 50 BMG.

As the old man said to the kid, don't tell me how far you shot, tell me how close you got.

Some years ago I experimented with 55g FMJ�s at 3500fps in my .22-250. The experiment didn�t last long because the coyotes took far too long to die

My point with the FMJ�s, which seems to have escaped you, is that a simple hole is not enough � adequate destruction of vital function must accompany the hole in order for it to be effective.

Obviously a simple hole IS enough, and a hole through vital organs IS enough!

The .243 Win incident was less than 200 yards and the .30-06 was around 400. In both instances the elk easily escaped the hunter.

And the shot placement was where?

To make it short, a big game hunting bullet, cup and core even, makes the organs in the chest cavity - jelly. What more do you want? I will admit that a 338win used on a muley at 50 yds makes for impressive acrobatics as the deer goes flying and an elk taken with a 308 at 100 seems to not even flinch which is awe inspiring for its fortitude, but I still had the joy of dumping innards on the ground, including jellied lungs and heart.
As far as tenacity of animals, every kill and individual is different and not quantifiable by engineering standards. One of my quickest kills was an elk at 400 and change (lasered) with 180 gr �06. My worst was a midsized whitetail doe with a 165 308 at 40 yds taking an hour to find in a cedar jungle on dry ground. There was one thing in common with the two incidents � a jellied chest cavity.

Anyway, my point is- this is not rocket science, it�s a sport for me. I have been down that road with the numbers, energy, statistics, and the other anal aspects and have come to my own opinion. Now whether you think so or not, I do respect your aspect and thoughts, just don�t get so huffy that yours is the only way. My freezer proves different.

Owe WOW!!!All this talk about velocity and FPE yet none about bullets used and wound channels.Not all bullets have the same effects whether shot in a 30-06 or 300 Mag.Barnes bullets are known for there long narrow wound channels as Noslers are known for there larger channels and throw in some quick expanding bullets in either the '06 or .300 and you have more of this or that.

In other words CH.A wider wound channel does more damage and penetration isn't always the best thing for "immediate" effects from any caliber and we no this from cast bullets in the wrong place compared to...

I have seen no difference in a 180 Nosler out of a 30-06 or a 300 Win Mag but I have with other bullets.I have never seen the need for a 200 grain Nosler in a 30-06 or 300 Mag as the 180 has always done it's job.

Jayco

Something I have missed here is whether the shooter can handle the recoil of those bigger hitting rifles. I know the only magnum I could shoot worth a hoot was the .264 mag that I stupidly sold a long time ago.
A buddy had a 7mm mag and I could shoot it fairly well but not up to my standards.
So in this game I would choose the '06 as I can handle the recoil and in doing so get better shot placement.
I am by no means a little guy at over 6 feet and 250 pounds but I have what is called a long truck to my body and the magnums actually turn me when I fire them thus ruining the shot for me. I can shoot the standard calibers up to 45-70 just fine.
So I have no magnum caliber firearms and most like will never they just don't work for me.
As to shooting at 400 or farther that just isn't hunting to me more like long range sniping and I won't do it. Besides I like to know I have anchored my game without hiking that far to find out. Old age will do that to you and a pair of bad legs helps to limit how far you have to hike to know how well you have done.
I also like a fairly heavy rifle goes back to when I was a kid and in service they all weighted a lot and you just got used to the weight. All except that stupid M16 mattel excuse for a rifle. Yes I do not like it and still don't almost 40 years later funny how and idea gets into your head and doesn't change.

Two holes through the lungs, both made with 7mm 160g Barnes XLC�s, were not enough for an antelope. Clearly, simple holes are NOT enough without adequate destruction of vital function.



Pretty much center chest, broadside with the .243 Win. In the case of the elk I got a good look a few minutes and about 600 yards later from about 25 feet and it appeared to be a reasonable hit behind the right front leg. That elk went on, bleeding from the mouth and side, for another hundred yards before I lost track of it (I was busy with my own elk, shot with a .30-06 which worked very well). I think the other elk jumped a fence, crossed the road and jumped another fence, getting onto land where it was completely safe from the hunter that shot it. It left a pretty good blood trail in the snow.



I have no doubt that what you use has worked for you, just as what I use has worked for me. Nevertheless I�ve seen multiple cases where the outcome was less than desired, using a variety of calibers and cartridges and bullets, with placement that was acceptable or better. More often than not, the poor results have been obtained with a .243 Win, although they poke holes just fine.

While I have hunted elk with my .257 Roberts and .30-30, there is no way I would attempt shots at ranges where I would be very comfortable using my 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag or one of my .30-06 rifles.

Guess we�ll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Yeah, no sweat on the what ever works for each of us. Strange about the pronghorn for ya, I use cup and core and they just drop.

By the way, looked up your blog site, see you have hunted up around Little Snake, as I have. Great fun area with few people, its by chance I didn't grow up there.

Have a good un.

Have hunted Unit 4 nearly every year since '82, the exceptions being the 1 or 2 years I didn't hunt at all and a couple years I went somewhere else.

Going back there this fall with a RFW license for Snake River Ranch. Taking at least one .30-06 as two are virgins in my hands.