Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 284 win

Just curious, but if you load at 65k psi, how high is the pressure of the outliers? I have always thought that you should load to an average pressure such that all loads within 2 standard deviations don't exceed the max allowable pressure.

doubletap,

Exactly. That's why the SAAMI standards for average pressure in any cartridge are under 65,000 psi.

Some cartridges tend to show more variation in the pressure of individual shots than others, the main reason the average pressure standards vary for different modern bolt-action rounds (though some are lower because the round is an old one).

The short-fat magnums tend to show less pressure variation than other rounds, the reason their average pressure standards are higher than for most others. But they are still usually under 65,000.

2900-3000fps in the 284 has been beat to death but I still enjoy reading the posts.

You bolt action guys may find the 284imp. aka the 284 Shehane interesting.

http://www.google.com/search?source...z=1T4GGLL_enUS358US358&q=284+shehane

My 284 Amish machine gun may be sneezed at by some of you but 154 Hornadys seated to the neck/shoulder juncture @ 3.040" using 30/06 magazines over IMR4350 is deadly.

120 B'Tips without changing the seater stem is a killer as well.

Didn't mean to interupt the OP but the extra 100fps just doesn't trip my trigger.Buy a short mag or a 7RM.

JMHO friends.

What kinda guns are those?
Butch

Top is a Rem. 7600

I think I have a magazine that might fit it. It says Colyer Clip. It says 308-6mm-300. If you can use it I will send it to you.
Butch

Butch you are most kind.Howevere, your description makes me think that it is for short action cartridge and the mag has small block.

I need the 25/06,270,280,30/06 mags to work with my overall length.

U DA MAN !!!!!!!!!!

Thanks anyway.

Not a problem, it has been in my drawer for years. Below is an email from German Salazar commenting on the pressure and loads that I posted above.
Butch,

I don't have any direct experience with the .284, however, the powder
charges look low for the pressure reported. However, I note that the
OAL is 2.800" which is very short, most target chambers are throated
for a longer OAL and that can change things quite a bit.

I would say that the loads are safe, but with a long throat, leave
room for more development.

German

Now that I think about it I believe most are seating about 3.050" or there abouts. They are also using 29-30" barrels instead of the 24" used. I'm still looking for more concrete info.
Butch

Well the 284 is a handloaders deal now. If you don't handload well you are going to have to. A 7mm-08 in an NULA Mod 20 would be just about perfect. I shoot a 7 x 57 myself along with a 7mm Remington Mag that I when back to a few years ago. You want more that what a 7mm-08 can give you then go with a 7mm Remington Mag. Ammo and cases are plentiful. You can go wrong. The other option would be have Mel Make you a 30-06 and call it a day. Welcome to our little corner of the World Wide Web.

Seriously considering building a nice 30/06 hunter.

I know, I know BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, but effective.

Best thing I've read on the Campfire in 2010... Gold Medal Candidate!

Thanks for the chuckle...

I've known Battue for a while now and was chatting with him as his NULA was being built and he had an interesting comment. He stated that if he should ever want to sell the NULA a 7-08 may be easier to sell!

Butch,

In the NULA Model 20 (the origin of this thread) the magazine length is 3.00 inches. Usually in a NULA the .284 is also matched with a 22" barrel.

My 1909 Argentine in 284 has a 23" barrel and it is a very accurate rifle. I have never chrono'ed the loads. I've only shot it at the range one time and shot some handloads that an old friend loaded for his. It was loaded with 4350 and seems like the box said 2650fps. If it shoots that well next time, I wouldn't change the load. Fast enough for me.
Butch

MD

If your able to seat the bullet a long ways out via a generous throat length could u hazard a guess what drop in pressure will be?

Rich,

I've found out it wouldn't be all that difficult to get rid of a 7mm-08 Nula and lose little. Maybe none the closer one gets to hunting season. However, it would be a foolish thing to do so....

Huntsman,

I wouldn't even want to guess--though I will note that seating bullets out to an overall cartridge length equivalent to the .30-06, say 3.35 inches, would result in an extra 15% or so in powder room. This would be result in an extra 100 fps or so in velocity at the same pressures.

I would also result in a cartridge functionally equivalent to the .280 Remington.

I really like the .284 round in a Savage M-99, that is what it is intended for IMO. short lever and auto actions..I see no advantage to that caliber in a bolt gun and the rebated rim can sometimes be a pain for a gunsmith.

I also have not been a fan of the 7-08 for whatever reason, mostly because I prefer the 7x57 case and the ability to seat bullets out and have more powder capacity..I can beat the socks off the 7-08 with my long magazined and long throated 7x57 and I could not make that work with the 7-08. But the 7-08 can be used in a very short action and make a very compact gun, and I suppose that is its main appeal if a 1/4 of and inch in action size makes a difference to someone.

I understand that it's argueable, and only express my personal opinnion as to why I prefer the 7x57 in bolt guns to the 7-08 or .284..As to accuracy that is mostly in the barrel IMO. I am not particularly impressed with the word "inherent accuracy" in cartridges, at least from a hunting gun point of view. It seems to have some degree of credability in bench rest.

Ray,
I sure won't get involved in an inherent accurate discussion. For long range and long range FClass, the 284 is very hard to beat. You won't see much in the way of 7-08 or 7x57 as a long range accuracy round. Below is an additional email from one of the sucessful FClass shooters.


Butch,

According to Quickloads, running 55.4grs of 4831sc under a 180VLD seated for an OAL of 3.200, the pressure is 61,451psi, and velocity is 2854fps...This is what alot of guys running the straight 284 are doing. I'm running my 284 with 54.8 grs, velocity of 2820fps over the crony...I've heard alot of guys talking about running as much as 56grs in a straight 284...oh....pressure would be in the 68,000psi range....

RL17 data on quickloads...bear in mind this is using 70F as the temp....52.5 grs, 180vld seat to an OAL of 3.20, velocity of 2951fps, pressure of 71,492psi...

Figures are for a 30" barrel...

Hope all is well...
Jim


Butch

If powder capacity is obviously important to you Ray why do you hamstring yourself with a cartridge of lesser capacity than the 280 Rem, after all you're in a long action.



Gosh Ray, the 284 is a better cartridge in a short action bolt rifle than a 7x57 in a long action. Not to mention in long action as well.
Any smith that can't handle a rebated rim is not worth is salt.


I can understand that you and others like the classic old cartridge but that's all it is, classic.