Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Travel Question (Loaner Rifle)

If one were going to take time on the way back from Africa to spend a week in Europe and consider taking the PH up on his offer for use of a Win 300,I'd ask those in the know the following:

1.Can you think of any cons which outweigh the benefits of not travelling with your rifle, especially with a stay in Europe on return trip?

2.How might it impact on your relationship with the Africa travel agency were one to ask them the unusual request of arranging flights internally inside Europe instead of just straight back home stateside from Windhoek or JoBurg?

3. Does not travelling with your rifle make the trip(s) far more manageable and less time consuming or aggravating?

I can't secure the back end of my trip with a reservation booking till Aug 2nd so I am kind of in purgatory and needing to come up with a final decision.

I'll make one following my review of replies,if any.

Thanks in advance.

IT depends on what country you are traveling to. France and Germany really don't make an issue out of it, you just pick up your guns at customs along with your luggage and off you go. UK is another matter. There you would have to secure a bonded carrier or some such bullshit and it's a pain in the ass. As to the extra travel, I don't see an issue with the travel agent making further arrangements.

If you are happy using a loner rifle,it would definitely ease some frustration. The travel agency is just that, a travel agency. They may specialise in Africa, but the more flights they sell the more $ they make. I have done neither but I did spend a day coming and going in Frankfurt without incident traveling with my rifles. There was minimum hassle, just extra cost.
Randy

1. I'm not a rifle looney and I don't care if I have my "own" guns...YMMV;I've seen some pretty damn good hardware in a few places and if its quality stuff and your comfortable why not?

2.I'm going next year if funding is still good,and I'm going into Barcelona and out thru Madrid,and back to JFK next year,and no one seems to care...they'll take my $$$$$.They book flights;it's what they do.

3.Yes and see 1.Again YMMV.

Have fun.

Thanks gents...on the way back, it will be two nights in Paris, 2 in Venice and 4 in Rome. I was concerned about the flights and security of my rifle as the flights from Paris to Venice to Rome are more a charter type service (Ryddair)sp, and I was personally thinking that aside from my PITA it would also be a PITA for the travel agency and I try to be as low maintenance, as possible.

I figure if I leave my rifle behind, I lessen the nightmare for the agent and perhaps myself,in the long run.

I would leave the rifle home. You can rent a rifle in Windhoek at Rosenthals if you would like to shoot something other than a 300 Win Mag.

On a side note, will you be able to spend a few extra days touring Namibia?

Bob, use the loaner....it'll make the trip, especially the back end through Europe a LOT smoother....

And your travel agent wont mind booking the extra flights...trust me..

Ingwe

Especially Gracy Travel. They book flights in Europe as well as Africa. We used them for a hunting trip to Ireland a few years ago, and it worked out great. They have contacts over there.

I would also vote for using the loaner rifle. In fact when I was hunting in South Africa more often I started to consider using a loaner from a PH friend who is also a gun dealer, just because getting rifles into RSA (and out again) has become such a PITA.

Issac, you are in the same position that I was in for my first African hunt in May. Prior to my Namibian hunt, my wife and I did a 17 day tour of RSA and Zambia. Because of our constant border crossings, a loaner gun was the only feasible way to go.

But it was not without its problems and I swear that I will not hunt Africa again without my own rifle. Perhaps you can learn from my difficulties and avoid similar problems.

The loaner was a very accurate ( I could cover each my 2 shot sighter groups with a quarter which turned out to be many- see below!) Schultz & Larsen 7 X 64. Prior to my hunt I inquired about the ammunition that would be available and was told that we would stop at Rosenthal's where Norma or PMP ammo was available for me to purchase. When we went to do this, the only available ammo was Privi Partizan and it did not perform ( minimal penetration and some bullets were loosely seated and could easily be pushed into the cartridge or pulled out! Make sure the PH has acceptable ammo in hand.

Each time I tried to return a chambered round back into the magazine, it was impossible to get my fingers into the magazine to hold down the stack (to have the bolt lay on an empty chamber)because of the the small side slot over the feeding rails. It may seem like a minor complaint but very annoying looking like a newbie several times a day. Make sure you are able to handle the specific model of gun you will be using before the hunt to determine any short comings (ie. stock fit issues, safety, etc.)

My biggest problem was with the scope supplied. Quality optics (ie. Bushnell or Leupold) are very pricey in Namibia. The unknown brand of scope that I used was not up to bouncing around in the rifle rack and changed its POI greatly as I found out after a screwup on my Springbok (shot 8" high and 5" right from initial sight in and was similarly out of whack on subsequent checks. This really saps your confidence when you step up to the sticks. Make sure the gun is scoped with a quality brand scope that you would use at home.

I hope you can learn from my experiences - have a great hunt.

Bob
For what you are planning, I concur on the loaner. In fact, now you may as well take the computer you were considering.

I knew you'd ultimately see the logic of that,Griz.

I appreciate the advice gents,especially from Jorge and Ingwe who have been my go-to guys for a lot of questions off the public forum, as well.

Since the agents are making money off side-trips not necessarily inside the specialized Africa travel iteneraries, I'm now cool with the extra travel requests.

One very interesting thing I have learned is this Rosenthal store in Winhoek. We will be overnighting there and if I see a loaner more preferable, I'll consider that option, along with a ammo purchase,if not ridiculously priced.

The Win 300 is scoped with a Leupold 3x9. It's a rifle set-up that has received complimentary reviews by other users,nothing negative.

Again, my thanks everyone!

Is there any issues/problems with throwing a few boxes of ammo in a bag for the trip? I haven't flown with rifles in over 20 years so I don't know all that crap.

I'd also not bat an eye out of bringing an extra scope.

As long as it's in your cargo bag and in it's original box and secured, you're good to go. Some airlines require a more solid container but mine does not.

The additional scope is a good idea and I'll follow that advice.

I think a loaner makes much sense, assuming I knew it was a decent rig and I had enough ammo to run 10-20 rounds through it before hunting

As an unabashed rifle and gun nut, no way I'd go with the loaner rifle option. I was in the bush on 9/11 when if you remember, all fights to the US were cancelled and my ship got underway without me so I HAD to get back. Gracy Travel worked with me in getting me into Germany as I was betting on German efficiency to get me home once the skies opened back up and as a backup I could go across the TARMAC to Rhamstein AFB and hitch a ride home. Why am I telling you this? Because even at the height of post 9/11 criteria, I had no issues hauling my guns around and France is even easier. So from a practicality POV, the loaners are the way to go, but to me an African safari isn't "whole" unless I tote my own artillery. Weird ain't I?

Bob,

I'd make it 2 separate trips with the itinerary you have put forth. Do them both the right way, and not a half-assed compromise to work them in together.

Don't go to Africa without your own rifles. You have in mind which of your rifles you want to use, and which loads, and which scope. You know them inside and out. This is a big hunt. Don't lose sight of that!

Europe is a 7 hour flight from J'berg. It's a 7 hour flight from Atlanta. Why piggyback it? Take your wife to Europe for a European vacation, not a safari add on. Dedicate yourself to make each the best they can be. I will tell you that borrowing a rifle will diminish your satisfaction with the safari. You will not have the absolute confidence you need when a tough shot presents itself if you have a borrowed gun in your hands. I know!

Don't try carting your rifles around Europe. If for no other reason, a gun case doesn't fit in the trunk of small rental cars very easily.

Now I will admit that I have done such an adventure, and tacked on 6 days in France after Tanzania. The only way it really worked is that I went to France, and stayed with friends. I didn't have to lug the gun case around. France is hunter friendly, too.

Let's also consider the clothing thing. You need different clothes for Europe than you do on Safari. That means more luggage, especially for your wife! No my friend, make this a separate trip, and do them both the proper way. Let there be no regrets.

Jeff

isaac,

My wife and I are going to Spain in December, for a combo sightseeing/ibex hunt trip.

I have elected to use one of the outfitter's firearms- he has stuff like Blaser rifles, and Swarovski scopes, available to use.

If this were a multi-species hunt, I might consider taking one of my rifles, but the hassle, paperwork, lost time, stress, logistic issues while sightseeing, etc. problems overwhelm the decision.

On all but one international hunt, I have taken my own rifles, but on the one occasion I used an outfitter's rifle, it worked out just fine.

Jorge/Hatari...completely understand but I am going to lean toward the loaner for two reasons.

1. London comprises two of our stops, albeit short but long enough for at least a couple mini-tours, unless there is a itinerary change.

2. At 52, I have not taken a holiday lasting more than 7 days in 30 years. With a near year of planning, Karen and I have set aside this near 3 weeks and we're gonna take advantage of it,by golly. We need and some might think we even deserve this extended holiday. Kids near grown, educated, off on their way and we haven't had a "just us" time together, save for long weekends, since we met 10 years ago. It's 10 days hunting, including leopard and 7 nights in Europe, staying in the places in Italy my son is visiting now.

My research,save for the wonderful and different advice I've received from you and Jorge,suggests my stress levels decrease exponentially with going the loaner route.

At first, I was mostly mirroring Jorge's itinerary(seemed perfect) and I was bugging him on and off the 24, but when I realized he was sitting in a lawn chair, poolside, drinking a cold one, watching his wife doing yard work, I knew I had to be my own man and plan our own desires for this trip. Especially as I became more concerned the dangerous game hunt, originally contemplated, might be a bit boring to Karen, considering the style of hunt.

So, while all the advice is much appreciated, I think I'm going with our 3 weeks and include Europe. Since I just bought a new Swaro 1.7x10x42 Z6, please know I wish to take my rifle but I really don't want to make this 3 weeks all about my wishes....if that makes sense. I want Karen to fall in love with this trip, as well. All of this is a first time event for her and my next trip to Africa will be with my son. That will be my "no-bitchin' Africa hunt"

As of now, I'm at around $5300 for the airfare(for both of us) with 5K to the hunting guys to hold my spot! So, I'm trying to do this wisely and fairly especially paying attention to the type of details posted above.

Probably over-analyzing it all though! It's one of my character flaws!! Thinking something to death!!

Bob
I only changed my mind on the computer because I see you are determined to do "too much" on this trip. When we try to do too much, computers help.

I am wondering if you are allowed to import anmmo for a rifle that is not accompanying you. It didn't use to be a problem but I don't know these days.
A spare scope might be helpful but I wouldn't bother unless I already had it mounted in the correct rings.

Good luck

You can't take ammo unless you have a gun.Unless your giving the scope as a tip,don't think I'd bother either.

If you are in Namibia with a local type farmer,everyone I have talked to has some good rifles.They have to cull for meat and head shots are the norm.Everyone I talked to hand loaded with top quality components.(sample size of 6)

Anyone here ever see Karl Stumpe's loaner guns? WOW! I'd book there just to try some out.

Both my African trips were for 30 days and travel time with complex itinaries of mixing hunting/parks/site seeing/multiple countries+outfitters etc.Some on off days with in the hunting time and with solid planning everything came off with out a hitch.Same with a 3 week Spain deal.

One thing I did that worked great all 3 trips was to get a seperate new issue credit card with a set limit.I used $5K.Had someone back home that had the PIN # also so if there were any problems either they or I could contact and access the account to OK a purchase or make arrangements efficiently.I did change a flight(stayed longer!)...sent an email to my friend from the outfitters computer,he redid my stuff, payed the fees,and I went hunting.

Theres no such thing as too much...just unprepared.IMO YMMV yada yada yada