Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats I know I'm going to get hammered, but...

Cgarlie,

How is the barrel life with that 6.5-06, and what barrel did you use?

You probably didn't see the post, but I moved the rifling on a #5 Pac Nor in 6mm Rem 3/10s of an inch in less than 250 rounds. I used a 6mm Rem in a Sendero stock, off a Hoppes front rest no less, to shoot my first 1000 Yd BR match. I am sure the majority of the rifling movement happened during the "Heavy Gun" phase, where I shot a bunch of sighters, then a 10-shot string as fast as I could. I did that three times and the barrel became too hot to touch each time.

I expected maybe 10 to 20 thousands of erosion that day, but not .300. I called Pac-Nor, and they said to send the barrel to them--though they think the rifling movement was just a result of getting it so hot. I haven't borescoped it yet, but scope or not, the rifling has moved a bunch. I am using the Stoney Point set-up to check this, and I wouldn't argue if I made a .002 to .003" error in my measurements. So maybe the throat only moved .297" instead of .300" Regardless, I can no longer seat a bullet anywhere near the rifling.

I have broken in and cleaned my new Krieger 6.5x284 barrel just like I did my Pac-Nor. In 239 rounds, the throat has moved maybe .007 to .008". This is what I expect, and I assume it is just the rounding off of the sharp edges of the rifling. Now, I haven't shot the Krieger barrel hot yet, but each five-shot string I put through it is as fast as I can single feed it. Given I have seen rapid throat movement on three different sporter barrels now when they were shot hot--once as an experiment--I am a bit concerned about overbore chamberings and barrels thay may, shall we say, be a bit too soft?

BTW, if you have some interest in my efforts as I stumble through this 1000 ys BR stuff, here are links to a couple of threads:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...true#Post412799
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/424347/an/0/page/0#424347

Blaine

Blaine
PM coming...
Charlie

will you email your procedure on exactly how you do things? im coming to the same conclusion myself and would like info on how your doing things.

I am going back to expanders for my 1000 yd BR rifle. Today I significantly improved my test groups (testing at 100 yds), and I think the major reason for that was by improving the consistency of neck tension. here is the part of my post in Competition Shooting that applies here.....

I am going to order a Redding FL bushing die and their floating, carbide expander. Here is why. First off, I need to bump the shoulder each sizing anyway ( I get stiff bolt closing/opeing otherwise and these are mild loads), and it takes less actions to prep a case with the FL bushing die. (The record holding 1000 yd BR shooter and gunsmith I am shooting with always bumps his shoulders too.)

I used to think an expander ball induced run-out, but to be honest, I have not had that problem with either the Forster raised expander or the Redding floating carbide expander. But much more than that, running the case necks over an expander does a very important thing. It makes the inside of the case neck smooth and transfers all the irregularities to the outside of the neck, where we want them. A smooth case neck on the inside contributes to consistent neck tension.

Before I turned the necks, I was sizing with just the bushing neck die. I was noticing a lot of variance in seating depth with the seater die adjusted to the same setting--occasionally as much as .010". Since I measure each case for seating depth after seating, I didn't inadvertently shoot a group with seating depths varying that much--but I was making a bunch of "fouler/sighter rounds".

To fix the seating depth issue, I had to back off the seater die .010", then seat a bullet and measure. Sometimes I would have go another .007", sometimes the full .010", sometimes none at all. A call to Redding confirmed what I was experiencing was variances in neck tension. I suspected that was true when I noticed the smaller neck bushing I used--and subsequently the more neck tension I created--the more I had to crank down the seater die to get the bullet seated to the right depth.

The short of all this is when I had properly turned the necks, expanding them on an expander mandrel to get the inconsistencies to the outside where I could hopefully turn them away and making the inside of the neck as perfect as possible, the consistency of my seating depth was much improved. I saw variances of around .003" vs the .010" plus. I believe this resulted in tighter groups today, and virtually eliminated the flyers.

I am thinking that with the FL bushing sizer with the good expander ball, I won't have to turn the necks quite as much. If all else fails and the expander will not givie me the right amount of neck tension, and I can't get it to the right size to do so, then I can just take it out. I'll still have a one-step process to bump the shoulder and size the neck with just the bushing. Based on my 4 groups today, consistent neck tension is more critical than the amount of tension (within limits), and the expander ball should give me consistent tension. As long as there is enough room between the neck wall and chamber for the neck to completely release the bullet before any part of the neck touches the chamber--like with the majority of rifles chambered without the need for neck turning--then some irregularities on the outside of the case neck won't matter.

Blaine

Charlie and all here, one of the things that I've noted through the years that seems to help a little, is to polish the case mouths with 0000 steel wool after trimming and chamferring/deburring. I use the Lee case spinner and trimmer, then while still in the spinner & drill, I chamfer and then pick up the ball of steel wool and spin the case mouth on it. If I want the cases to look nice, I'll then run the steel wool down the case body. I rarely get to the case heads, though, so the case walls look good, but the heads stay dull, giving away how lazy I can be sometimes, I guess.

When I polish the case mouths, the bullets seat as easily in my old RCBS Reloader Special press, a non-compound leverage job, like a hot knife going through butter.

I haven't done any "scientific" type tests - just observed through the years that loads done this way tend to shoot more consistently by a small but noticable margin. Maybe the reduced friction and lack of burrs that can shave tiny curls of jacketing from the bullets help, plus they probably seat more concentricly and consistently. Maybe bullet pull is more consistent, too? I dunno.

Anyone have any more scientific or tested data, or even theories on this? I've meant to test this for years, but never seem to remember to do an A&B comparison to get some more valid info.

All I can certify is that the pressure I put on the press's handle is a LOT less when I polish the newly chamferred cases.

Interesting..........

Blaine,

When you are checking the seating depth are you using some sort of ogive to case head measuring tool, like the comparator? Or are you doing a OAL measurement. You didn't specify.

Had a conversation with an avid shooter the other day. He mentioned another positive for moly coating.....more consistent release, which of course is interelated with neck tension.


While I don't doubt Charlie's results, have to wonder why the bench rest crowd doesn't use it. Realize hunting and bench rest rifles are not the same.

---Ross

Ross,

OOOps, sorry. I guess I was assuming most folks know measuring to the bullet nose is very inconsistent and an unreliable way of determining seating depth. That was probably a correct assumption when I posted this in the Competition section, but it is a bad one for here. I know, never assume...........

I'm measuring to the ogive with the Stoney Point system. I'd say it's accurate--when cheking seating depth of loaded rounds, to .001 to .002, depending of how consistent one's method is.

I am just sticking my toe in this 1000 yd BR, but I have already found--as expected--that everything is critical in BR. That is not the case with a hunting rifle.

If you are free this Sat AM, stop by Three Points Range and watch us shoot at 1000 yds. We will do our best to get you hooked..................

I'm not sure if show time is 0700 or 0800, but we will be shooting to around noon.

Blaine

Blaine, yeah, it IS interesting. Only theory I've been able to come up with is that the obviously reduced handle pressure on my non-compound leverage press reduces the tendency to induce runout while seating the bullet. I guess you could call this "country boy" or "lazy man's" accuracy? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Still, I've noticed a marked difference in the pressure needed to seat a bullet, and the resulting accuracy on paper, though it's nothing drastic, of course - just one of the "little things" that can be done. It does appear to be pretty consistent, though, at least with my accuracy loads for a given rifle. Just wondered if anyone else had noticed or tried this.

It's something I am going to try. I just want the neck tension to be conssitent........

Blackwater,I use a brass bore brush.The one time I forgot to clean and lube the inside of the necks I really noticed a big difference in pulling the rod out.I use Lee white lube thinned on a bore mop.