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That high country early season blacktail hunting looks a lot like alpine Colorado summer time. And it would be a helluva good time I am thinking.
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Nope.
It's more fun than that...................(grin)
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Campfire Outfitter
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Mine haven't cost me any, of course I use mine to find the game. Though plenty of the critters I have taken yours would have cost you had you been looking through them during the precious few seconds you had for the shot.
My experience as well, Killing or hitting something at 500 yards give or take doesnt' take a lot. And if you can identify the animal you are after and then plug it, its good. I've used more X and continue to do so at times... specialty issues like longer head shots, I just prefer to see how much movement I have and see more betta where its going to go or if I'm going to attempt it. The other issue is moving animals in a herd and picking a certain one or a legal one. Yep,
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Recount your best High-X count victim and how it went down................
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
A few days ago I had 15+ bucks feeding in a circle, racks down, below me. It would have been retarded to use a rifle scope to try to sort them out. My 10x bino's and my 15-45x Zeiss Spotter got the job done perfectly, and I only pointed my rifle at the one I killed. 6x42 scope. After the shot and they had scattered a bit.. The bigger ones had run off. I don't recall the conversation, but I've just said, 6x can be enough for identification... while 2.5 cannot.. but for killing you really don't need 6x even. My hunting situations are totally different than some... if there were no danger of crossing bucks up... then its never an issue. And yes, I never grab a rifle until I'm ready to shoot.... if I'm out to simply kill, ain't a big deal, if you are after a specific deer milling in brush... you have to be careful and have at least 6x depending on the distance.... I agree...And I believe I've been over this with rost before, and I just dropped the subject..But it goes like this..If your head hunting, Bino's for finding, spotter for judging, rifle scope for killing. if you want to use a rifle scope for all three, or even two of those jobs, it speaks volumes, and needs no further information to get a clear picture of "trophies" collected by said hunter.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Calvin- NICE buck! Congrats!
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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Here we go again.. you folks is gettin off topic..... binocs are for hunting, and locating a target... tahts a seperate topic. Personally I'd rather forget the rifle than the binocs..... without binocs and a spotter at times... its all a walk in the park praying for luck.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10 |
Back to somewhat the original topic..
Jon talked about "precious seconds". In my experience, the last thing I'd want if I only had "precious seconds" would be a high X scope. Might just be because I'm an idiot, but it takes me more than a few precious seconds to locate what I'm looking for with high x's.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Regular
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Always disconcerting,to read of another boob on a hillside,flailing his rifle about as an observation device...undoubtedly with one in the pipe. Nobody said anything about an observation device of a hillside. If seeing the critter well enough to count the points and decide not to shoot worries you, it's a mental issue of your own making. If you're afraid of the boogie man under your bed I can't help you with that either. I agree...And I believe I've been over this with rost before, and I just dropped the subject..But it goes like this..If your head hunting, Bino's for finding, spotter for judging, rifle scope for killing. if you want to use a rifle scope for all three, or even two of those jobs, it speaks volumes, and needs no further information to get a clear picture of "trophies" collected by said hunter. Nobody said anything about "finding" the animal with a scope. That you need to make things up in order to confuse safety issues into the mix to justify the handicap you place on yourself with equipment choices, speaks volumes about you. Jon talked about "precious seconds". In my experience, the last thing I'd want if I only had "precious seconds" would be a high X scope. Might just be because I'm an idiot, but it takes me more than a few precious seconds to locate what I'm looking for with high x's. Whether you're an idiot or not, if you're unable to quickly find an animal in a scope then you simply wouldn't have gotten some of the bucks I have gotten. Maybe all your hunting experience involves a bunch of deer standing there on a hillside for you to stare at all day long. I see that a lot too but most of the time it's does and little bucks. The big fellas have gotten that way by learning not to do that.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Recount your best High-X count victim and how it went down....... Here on bear, just under 600, scope set on 12x. Dink down and wasn't just standing there waiting for me to shoot him. I totally agree with your use of bins but when I pick up the rifle after spotting the bear with bins I personally need the higher X to track them in thick brush that is taller than they are. They are moving through it and I find them hard to find with a lower X scope. Now you see them now you don't and I have but a few seconds to connect. Just me bud but that's what works for me. I don't have 20 year old eyes anymore if that has anything to do with it. My eyes take longer to focus and higher x helps that.
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Shot a pretty good Buck for The Boys last year,(on the move)at a CH over 650yds. Montucky 7Whizzum/162 6x42.
I'd reckon that as being comfortably under 70% of that glass's resolving power.
Saw him in bino's first...............(grin)
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Always disconcerting,to read of another boob on a hillside,flailing his rifle about as an observation device...undoubtedly with one in the pipe. Nobody said anything about an observation device of a hillside. If seeing the critter well enough to count the points and decide not to shoot worries you, it's a mental issue of your own making. If you're afraid of the boogie man under your bed I can't help you with that either. I agree...And I believe I've been over this with rost before, and I just dropped the subject..But it goes like this..If your head hunting, Bino's for finding, spotter for judging, rifle scope for killing. if you want to use a rifle scope for all three, or even two of those jobs, it speaks volumes, and needs no further information to get a clear picture of "trophies" collected by said hunter. Nobody said anything about "finding" the animal with a scope. That you need to make things up in order to confuse safety issues into the mix to justify the handicap you place on yourself with equipment choices, speaks volumes about you. Jon talked about "precious seconds". In my experience, the last thing I'd want if I only had "precious seconds" would be a high X scope. Might just be because I'm an idiot, but it takes me more than a few precious seconds to locate what I'm looking for with high x's. Whether you're an idiot or not, if you're unable to quickly find an animal in a scope then you simply wouldn't have gotten some of the bucks I have gotten. Maybe all your hunting experience involves a bunch of deer standing there on a hillside for you to stare at all day long. I see that a lot too but most of the time it's does and little bucks. The big fellas have gotten that way by learning not to do that. Idiots with loaded rifles,never don't not concern me.............
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10 |
Whether you're an idiot or not, if you're unable to quickly find an animal in a scope then you simply wouldn't have gotten some of the bucks I have gotten. Maybe all your hunting experience involves a bunch of deer standing there on a hillside for you to stare at all day long. I see that a lot too but most of the time it's does and little bucks. The big fellas have gotten that way by learning not to do that.
It's obvious your and my style of hunting differs. My goal is to read wind and cover to get a good look at areas I think might hold bucks, without being detected. I know that if I don't play the wind correctly, silhouette myself, or even just move across the wrong area, I will blow out mature bucks. Getting a good look at deer without them even having the faintest clue that I am there is what I aim to do. Blowing out a deer and having precious seconds to toss the scope up and pull the trigger isn't really what I want to do.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10 |
Recount your best High-X count victim and how it went down....... Here on bear, just under 600, scope set on 12x. Dink down and wasn't just standing there waiting for me to shoot him. I totally agree with your use of bins but when I pick up the rifle after spotting the bear with bins I personally need the higher X to track them in thick brush that is taller than they are. They are moving through it and I find them hard to find with a lower X scope. Now you see them now you don't and I have but a few seconds to connect. Just me bud but that's what works for me. I don't have 20 year old eyes anymore if that has anything to do with it. My eyes take longer to focus and higher x helps that. I sit on my deck and watch bears and bucks through my spotter on the mountain behind my house all the time. One of my favorite things to do, early in the AM with a cup of coffee. I've seen bears haul ass with no apparent reason. They'll cover lots of ground, and usually don't stop for much. Mountain deer are a completely different story. They'll stay in the areas, slowing feeding. Now, if you expose yourself, I'm sure they'll haul ass too..
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Not being able to find something quickly with higher X in glass, IMHO is a lot due to bad stock fit.. if the stock fits you and you use both eyes, your one eye is burning a hole in the target as you bring the gun up.. as soon as you can see through the glass, the target will be right there.... doesn't matter much to me if I'm looking at high X or 6x. Of course I practice with 6x a lot swinging on doves in flight.
Staying with a moving target at 600 yards plus.. isn't difficult, still being able to realize which buck it is as a few of them move out of sight for minutes at time and then back into sight... that requires binoc use and good timing... or if you are sure of what you want, then it takes something to verify its the same buck when it comes back out... given multiple seconds to shoot, thats a no brainer.. check with binocs.... given a fleeting second, tehre is no way in hell you'll tell at 650 yards the difference between the 12 inch wide illegal 8 point and the legal 14 inch wide 8 point. Difference between the spike and the big old buck... yeah, a child could do that.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Right at the bottom of the barrel there and on a few counts.............(grin)
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,856
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Blowing out a deer and having precious seconds to toss the scope up and pull the trigger isn't really what I want to do. Making more stuff up to support your point, I see. I never said anything about "blowing out a deer" and having to "toss up the scope." You must be thinking of E when he speaks of his requirement for a very large eyebox which makes his Leupold 6X42 the greatest scope evAr. Maybe you've never seen a herd of mule deer "on the move" (there can be many reasons for it)? Maybe you've never seen a couple whitetail bucks sparing? Maybe you've never seen a whitetail buck stuck to a doe in heat who thinks she needs to be somewhere else? Maybe you've never seen deer leaving cover to go feed on the other side of a hill or the other side of a fence as darkness approaches? Maybe there are never any other hunters where you hunt so you can literally count on anything you see being there all day long? Boy, that must make things tough. If every critter you've ever gotten allows you to put down your pack, get out a spotting scope, set up the spotting scope.... please do tell me how much you bribe the guards at the zoo. There are times this is the case and in those times a spotting scope is a wonderful tool to have. There are other times when it's not. If you require a spotting scope to kill an animal that is within killing range, some animals will get away from you. You have placed a handicap on yourself. That's your choice. Of course "killing range" can mean different things. You do realize this is the long range section, right? You are basing your statement on experience taking animals 400+, 500+, etc, right? If not, WTF are you doing here telling us what scopes we should use? If "within killing range" means within 250-300 yds or so, yeah, a 6X will probably do you just fine. Double, triple, quadruple the range and do you might have a clue why most here use higher powered scopes. Tell me how well you could read the wind here with a 6X scope: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB_Sxgp5OokHow well do you think you'd see that mirage through a 6X scope? Do the think the wind where you're standing is exactly the same speed as the wind all the way to the target? Do you think you would have picked up that subtle change? Do you think you can be sure the wind won't change in the time it takes to move from the spotting scope to the rifle? Please explain how NOT BEING ABLE TO read that wind through your scope and requiring a spotting scope to read what it used to be is somehow an "advantage."
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Regular
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Idiots with loaded rifles,never don't not concern me............. Almost as much as idiots with rifles and keyboards concern me. How exactly would you have judged that wind, funny schtick? You are the resident LR expert here (and all the other tactical boards you've been kicked off of) after all. Tell us your technique? How do you read the wind through your 6X scope? After you've gotten the wind read, how do you compensate? You often run an elevation turret only and only use simple duplex reticles, right? So how do you compensate? What's you're expert technique? Guesstimate hold off in "inches." Fantastic! Do tell us where exactly you would have held to make those shots. Humble us with your expertise.
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This is getting kinda funny..
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Campfire Regular
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At your expense, shortranger.
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