Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Why it didn't work?

I have asked this before in different areas but why has the the 284 failed commercially? Sure, the 284 is a little long for the short bolts with heavy bullets but why didn't a major manufacturer step up and see what would happen. The 284 case is still one of the favorites amoung reloaders and wilcatters, so did I miss something. MY other fav is the br but that is another story.

You would have thought that Winchester, the company that created it, would have supported it better. It was introduced in the Winchester 88 lever action and I believe in one early offering in the M70. After the 88 was discontinued it was not available in a factory gun for a long time. Ruger chambered it for awhile as did Browning. It was the most sought after caliber in the Ultra Light rifle. Winchester only loads a 150gr Power Point with a real heavy jacket for it now, it abandoned the 125gr loading several years ago. Before I worked up loads for it I shot the 150gr PPs and the deer I killed that year took 3 shots under 100 yards none of which opened up at all. That 150gr is more suited for elk. Winchester had the opportunity to get more out of the 284 Win with the length of their short action (3.1"), which would have allowed longer COAL. However, the SAAMI standard of 2.8" was its downfall. I had a Browning ABolt MicroMedallion in the 284 Win. The magazine restricted COAL to a strict 2.8". Loaded with any pointed bullet with a long or secant ogive meant that it exceeded 2.8". All I could load for it were Speer Grand Slam or Swift A-Frame style bullets. Someone once suggested that I have the magazine machined out to accept a longer cartridge, I ended up selling it (very hot commodity, my phone rang off the hook) and getting a 280 Rem which I had rechambered to A I.

Mr Fish thanks for the reply. The two cartridges I shoot now (22br and 284)are not available at Wal-mart. It seems that some of the best have been left behind or are in limbo. My hat is off to whoever "okayed" the short magnums but it was about time the rifle world did something.

The reason the .284 failed is because no one (very few) bought them. There are other calibers available which duplicate the .284.

Bthorpe<BR>Fashion.Simply put us rifle weenies go through fashion cycles and the .284Win has always been a hyper practical cartridge.<BR>in the 50's to the mid 70's Speed was the rage and all else was ho hum.The .284win wasn't the fastest 7mm,and could be duplicated in the .280/7mmExpress and hot loaded 7X57.Handiness and weight were about the same,as lightweight mountain rifles weren't in fashion yet on account of material advancements that had yet to happen.<BR>When the 80's rolled around things were kinda jumbled and folks had forgotten the .284win as it slowly petered out.<BR>Now that we have Carbon fiber,Titanium,and 5lb hunting rifles with weight saving short actions the .284win makes as much sense as nomex skivvies in hell,but it's almost too late.Thank god for the 1000yd benchrest weenies and their obcession with stiff short actions and high S.D. bullets reviving the chambering and wildcats based upon it.<BR>The 6.5-284 is just fascinating to me,and some other sicko's here on this board get all smarmy over the 6mm-.284.<BR>The new win short Magnum will give the .284 a shot in the arm I'm sure as it can be included in the Win.rebated rim family advertising blitz.<BR>May it obsolete the 7mmRem mag!<BR>E4E<BR>

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that wondered why the 284 is almost gone. I past up the chance to get a Savage 99 for $250 in decent shape about a year ago. In my brilliance I opted for a 22 mag (which is long gone now).<BR>I would really like to be able to get ahold of a decent 284. <BR>Is it practical to rebarrel say a shot out 243 (or similar) that still has a good action? Is a 30-06 to big of an action to rebarrel to 284? I ask this because I know of an old mod. 70 in 30-06 that has a shot barrel. I don't know to much about what action lengths work for what cartridge, but a guy at the gunshop says it is possible to rechamber a 30-06 to a 308.<BR>I know ammo supplies for the 284 are drying up, but I sure would like to have one on a Win mod 70 platform.

I get 3150fps shooting 140gr moly coated ballistic tips in a short action. What other round out there can do that on a .473 boltface? 708AI gets close but no cigar.

To CS---A model 70 Winchester in .30/06 can be rebarreled or rechambered to just about anything that will fit in the magazine box, including the .375 H&H. Go get that old rifle and run with it.

BThorp3, what action is your 284 in? Just curious about seating depth and over all length etc.I had one briefly in a Winchester 100 but I would like one in a short bolt action. 3150 with a 140 may see me hanging up the 7 Mag!....well maybe not.

I'm getting 3160fps sub MOA with 140gr Hornady boattails in my 24" 280 Rem A I and its only a half an inch longer than a 284!<p>[This message has been edited by jackfish (edited February 20, 2001).]

Rembo The action is in a Stolle Panda single shot bolt. I am currently shooting 140 moly ballistic tips. OAL I have experimented from 3.020-3.030 and charges from 57 -59 gr of IMR 4831. The 3150fps is with 59grs. It has shot from .15 to less than .35 inches (3 shots) center to center while playing with it. I am still fire forming the brass and breaking in (so to speak, not the traditional way) the barrel. I would expect the thing to shoot a little better after the thing has a couple hundred through it. For a hunting round and no case preperation (necks turned, milled primer pockets, weighing, and so on) except deburring the flash hole, that is good accuracy out of this gun. As far as the 280 ai goes, if you are stuck with a long action and a 473 boltface that would probably be my pick. Im just thankful I dont have one. If I need more than a 284 it will be a mag. Find me any 06 case (you pick the caliber) that will shoot (accuracy) with the 308 or 284 case in the same gun and I'll buy you a steak dinner.

I am no expert, but here is why I think the .284 failed. Simply put, a person who wanted a 300 yard gun didn't buy a lever action, and a person that bought a lever action simply didn't want a 300 yard gun. <BR>Perhaps it would succeed today.

E4E....I like what you've said about the .284 and FWIW I'm in complete agreement. The fashion statement goes a long way back.In the late 1960's the .308 and the lowly 7X57 dominated Sillhouette Matches through out the Southwest. The .308 held a slight edge on 7X57 in popularity but the fine old cartridge was seen everywhere and was, possibly for the first time, seen as having accuracy potential that far exceeded everyones expectations.......And then along comes the Green Box Gun Company and reinvents the wheel by coming out with the 7mm-08. The old 7X57 was never broke, It didn't need fixin', it simply was no longer fashionable to shoot a 100 year old cartridge! Just my thoughts, and pretty much my feelings on this fashion thingy. It's a real thing! that's for sure.<BR>Respectfully, Russ

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RussB:<BR><B>E4E....I like what you've said about the .284 and FWIW I'm in complete agreement. The fashion statement goes a long way back.In the late 1960's the .308 and the lowly 7X57 dominated Sillhouette Matches through out the Southwest. The .308 held a slight edge on 7X57 in popularity but the fine old cartridge was seen everywhere and was, possibly for the first time, seen as having accuracy potential that far exceeded everyones expectations.......And then along comes the Green Box Gun Company and reinvents the wheel by coming out with the 7mm-08. The old 7X57 was never broke, It didn't need fixin', it simply was no longer fashionable to shoot a 100 year old cartridge! Just my thoughts, and pretty much my feelings on this fashion thingy. It's a real thing! that's for sure.<BR>Respectfully, Russ </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Russ, Bullwnkl here just down the road from you here in Union. The 7x57 has the same problems that all century old rounds have, that is there are rifles out there that are a century old that are still in use, so ammo manufactures lawyers threw up their collective hands and screamed "POTENTIONAL LAWSUIT." The old rounds were therefore never loaded to higher pressures that modern firearms are loaded to.<P>Bullwnkl.<P>

When I was just a teenager, well over 30 years ago, I hung around a gunsmith shop in Shreveport, La that was chambering rifles for the 6/284. I remember them raving about how accurate it was. Kind of established a long unscratched itch in the back of my mind.<BR>I haven't ever owned one, but that might change.

OOOOOOOh MAAAAANNNN!<BR>Did you guy's ever consider that the new WSM is esentially the .30-284 with a slightly fatter case?We been had again!<BR>Everything new under the sun.......<BR>Next thing ya know they will rename the 7X64 Brenneke and market it here as a 7mm Express or something <BR>Cheers!<BR>E4E <P><P>------------------<BR>Remove the mechanical variables,and then you can only blame yourself!<BR>http://home.intekom.com/upfront/cost.htm

E4E Not sure I'll go all the way with you on the fashion statement but it is worth thinking about. I'm not really sure anything out there is new. A friend of mine had remington send him a short action with a mag bolt face. He necked the 350 to a 257 and had a blast. I think big hunter probably put it best. Wrong round for the gun it was introduced in. Still as many that have been made on that case it looks like the executives would have tried it. I think with the new short magnums out, it is doomed from the commercial standpoint.

Forgot. The 257-350 was a long time ago.

The newest Speer relaoding manual gives a brief history and at least one reason for the demise of the 284. GB

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bullwnkl:<BR><B> Russ, Bullwnkl here just down the road from you here in Union. The 7x57 has the same problems that all century old rounds have, that is there are rifles out there that are a century old that are still in use, so ammo manufactures lawyers threw up their collective hands and screamed "POTENTIONAL LAWSUIT." The old rounds were therefore never loaded to higher pressures that modern firearms are loaded to.<P>Bullwnkl.<P></B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>