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I'm not usually a coffee-in-the-keyboard kind of guy, but the image of the Tarahumara runners with their beer and cigarettes among the high-tech runners just about did it for me.
Kinda like a shooter wearing jeans winning a big shoot with a beat up Model 870.
Gotta love it!
Paul
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
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No point, the specifics were new to me, thought they might be so to others too.
Couple of other points though... the author has it that up until about 1900 the northern 250 miles of the Sierra really were uncharted territory, it was simply too dangerous to go up there, that changing with the decline of the Apaches.
Enlightening and sad all at once that pretty much ALL of the Sierra Madre has since been fenced and cut over.
Geronimo could still disappear into the mountains on our side of the line, but down there now he'd prob'ly need an AK-47 and have to deal in drugs.
Birdwatcher
birdwatcher: I have been fascinated with the idea of apache living in those mountains for quite a few years ever since i first heard about it. Having wandered around some down on the arizona side i am not convinced yet to this day that it would not be possible for some of them to STILL be around. I have a nephew, my half sister's son, that is kind of a throwback. He has Gila in him. sleeps on the floor, etc., kind of juan valdez look a like. He hungers for the wild places. Thinks its fun to walk the grand canyon rim to rim no stop, that kind of thing. A few years back he went into the matzatil wilderness area with a blanket, water bottle, etc. and spent a week running around in there. That is NOT easy country. I am fully convinced there are people living in some of those areas, that have not been corraled in, just have no way to prove it.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 08/10/10.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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" The current course record at leadville is under 16 hours."
That record's held by Lee24, if I'm not mistaken
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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I'll have to check the book out Birdie.  Christopher McDougal's book on the Tarahumara was a pretty interesting read, especially for a runner.
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THEY NEVER SURRENDERED- Bronco Apaches of the Sierra Madre 1890-1935 by Douglas V Meed.....Westernlore Press 1993 Tuscon AZ. If you like history about this subject....this is very good.
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Very interesting stuff. I'm a bit of an Indian buff.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Really like your dissertations on the Indians BW.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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I recently read a report by a group who (by using DNA) try to match up the bodies of people who died trying to get across the deserts to get into the USA with their relatives in Mexico to give the families a sense of closure about what happened to their kin.
The big surprise?
94% of the people dying in the desert while attempting to make it into the USA are INDIGENOUS people.
Meaning - they are INDIANS - not only that, but they speak NATIVE languages first in their homes, and only learn Spanish when they go to school.
They are Mexicans - in the same way a Sioux or a Mohawk might be American - or Canadian - or something in-between.
Meaning some of their ancestors existed on the lands in question - long before any man drew an artificial line across any map.
Meaning - that for many of them - their people were there first.
The border - came later.
Not a fact that will be too popular with some that post here though...
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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an utterly meaningless ethnographic factoid......they also owned Siberia first. See how the Russkis react to a reclamation attempt.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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an utterly meaningless ethnographic factoid......they also owned Siberia first. See how the Russkis react to a reclamation attempt. GOODUN !
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Tracker
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I recently read a report by a group who (by using DNA) try to match up the bodies of people who died trying to get across the deserts to get into the USA with their relatives in Mexico to give the families a sense of closure about what happened to their kin.
The big surprise?
94% of the people dying in the desert while attempting to make it into the USA are INDIGENOUS people.
Meaning - they are INDIANS - not only that, but they speak NATIVE languages first in their homes, and only learn Spanish when they go to school.
They are Mexicans - in the same way a Sioux or a Mohawk might be American - or Canadian - or something in-between.
Meaning some of their ancestors existed on the lands in question - long before any man drew an artificial line across any map.
Meaning - that for many of them - their people were there first.
The border - came later.
Not a fact that will be too popular with some that post here though... Uh...yeah. Mexicans are nothing more than Indians. There were never very many Spaniards in Mexico. But they are mostly Central American Indians. They never lived up here.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I recently read a report by a group who (by using DNA) try to match up the bodies of people who died trying to get across the deserts to get into the USA with their relatives in Mexico to give the families a sense of closure about what happened to their kin.
The big surprise?
94% of the people dying in the desert while attempting to make it into the USA are INDIGENOUS people.
Meaning - they are INDIANS - not only that, but they speak NATIVE languages first in their homes, and only learn Spanish when they go to school.
They are Mexicans - in the same way a Sioux or a Mohawk might be American - or Canadian - or something in-between.
Meaning some of their ancestors existed on the lands in question - long before any man drew an artificial line across any map.
Meaning - that for many of them - their people were there first.
The border - came later.
Not a fact that will be too popular with some that post here though... Uhhhh... I have indigenous DNA about 1/16 from my paternal and a trace from my maternal... about 94% of us mutigenerational inhabitants of this region of the US do. I'm sure I will test positive. They are indigenous to MEXICO. Reckon we speak our own way also... Kent
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Campfire Tracker
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you are full of it Brian
first off the fact that the Mexican peasants are mostly Indian blood is no news to anyone , its been that way for hundreds of year I 'spect
second , you will find most all of our illegals are spanish speakers right from the getgo....
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Birdie,
But here's a thought.... since we can be reasonably sure that the capture of infants and small childen during these extermination hunts was going on into the 1930's, it is still possible that a couple of these children may yet be living.
Good point, of course, and quite a positive spin.  Interesting thought, going from stone age to space age in one's lifetime.
If you are familiar with the case of Ishi, that last Indian in California who came down out of the mountains in 1912, last of his kind, then you know the sort of existence apparently endured by the last Apache fugitives in the Sierra.
Ishi, his mother and sister had been living a fantastically secretive existence for some years, always afraid of discovery by armed cowboys. Just the three of them, cut off from all knowledge of any friends or relatives that might still be alive.
That was exactly the story I was thinking of when I was reading the thread. Living in the mid-atlantic, I'm not as familiar with Southwestern/Texas history. Your threads have certainly kindled an interest. I found that the local public library has Grant's book and if no one else from 24hrcf has gotten it first, I'll be stopping by there this evening. Currently, I'm reading a book about how the government is screwing around while hundreds of citizens are dying and many thousands losing house and home. Not America in 2010, but the American Colonies in 1755. It also discusses the link between Edward Braddock and what is known these days as the "Death Blossom". Your threads are great reads. Thanks for posting them! Chuck
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Meaning some of their ancestors existed on the lands in question - long before any man drew an artificial line across any map.
Meaning - that for many of them - their people were there first.
The border - came later.
Not a fact that will be too popular with some that post here though...
That's GREAT! That makes it simple. That means we just have to find a new Lewis Wetzel. Or how about a General Sheridan.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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" The current course record at leadville is under 16 hours."
That record's held by Lee24, if I'm not mistaken
GTC The record time for the Western States 100 is 15:07. The WS 100 includes 18,000 feet of climbing in the Sierra Nevada. 16 hours would mean they averaged 6.25 miles per hour for the race, so in theory it is possible. Didn't know Lee24 was a world class runner as well!
Kevin Haile
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Did you guys see Lee24 free-diving down and fix the leaking BP well in the Gulf of Mexico with just a dive knife clenched in his teeth?
Kevin Haile
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Campfire Outfitter
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I recently read a report by a group who (by using DNA) try to match up the bodies of people who died trying to get across the deserts to get into the USA with their relatives in Mexico to give the families a sense of closure about what happened to their kin.
The big surprise?
94% of the people dying in the desert while attempting to make it into the USA are INDIGENOUS people.
Meaning - they are INDIANS - not only that, but they speak NATIVE languages first in their homes, and only learn Spanish when they go to school.
They are Mexicans - in the same way a Sioux or a Mohawk might be American - or Canadian - or something in-between.
Meaning some of their ancestors existed on the lands in question - long before any man drew an artificial line across any map.
Meaning - that for many of them - their people were there first.
The border - came later.
Not a fact that will be too popular with some that post here though... Actually they are finding that Whites & Polynesians were here before Indians.They are finding Caucasian skeletons older than Indian ones in Oregon and Washington State.oh my now what?????
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Now don't go confusing him with facts. BCBrian's assertion is so full of schit and untrue it's laughable. Funny some folks even believe it.
MAGA
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