Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Sell Me on the 45 ACP

I don't think he's talking about "hunting" black bears or cougars, I think he's talking about defense from being hunted by black bears and cougars....

I suppose that you are correct.

But I would still reccomend that a guy who is already carrying on a daily basis give serious consideration to the 1911/45ACP combo.

I woulds be more concerned about "user" issues with a newbie.

Good Shooting,

BMT

Ask Phil Shoemaker what he uses for Brownies. And what his daughter uses.

BMT,

"But I would still recommend that a guy who is already carrying on a daily basis give serious consideration to the 1911/45ACP combo."

I agree absopositively. Both the cartridge and the pistol are arguably the best thing going, and the combination of the two is unbeatable for self-defense - given the shooter 'likes' the platform.

I don't usually carry a 1911 in the woods, but when I do it's Condition 3 - hammer down, empty chamber, full magazine.

I know you know, but for those that don't:

Condition 0 - hammer cocked, chambered round, full magazine (or -1), safety off.

Condition 1 - "Cocked & Locked", hammer cocked, chambered round, full magazine, safety on.

Condition 2 - Hammer down, chambered round, full magazine.

Condition 3 - Hammer down, empty chamber, full magazine.

Condition 4 - Hammer down, empty chamber, no magazine (some say empty magazine).

Chris,
Welcome!

I've read the posts and believe you would be well served to look at the Scandium framed Smith 1911. It's a Commander size and would carry easily. I have read that is is not nearly as punishing in the recoil department as Smith's other light weights. S&W's 1911's have alwasy appeared very accurate in the tests I've read. I am sure I will find one following me home one day in the near future.

As far as the adequacy of the 1911 for your purposes, it has been well covered by others, although reading between the lines is always advisable. A well constructed 230 grain 45 slug traveling at 950 fps, should be an effective fight stopper with most black bears and any mountain lion if put on target properly. If you want more gun, you ususally have to put up with more weight and bulk.

The 10mm some have advocated has merit, too. I have a Glock 20 and believe it to be a very useful pistol to have along in the woods.

In an auto, the 45 and 10mm are the only way to go unless you handload, then the 460 Rowland would be another good choice. That's always an easy $300.00 option with a 1911 platform, Scandium not included possibly. I have a 460 Rowland in a Kimber Classic Stainless and it is fun! The Rowland gives pretty honest 44 mag medium intensity performance out of a 1911. That should be comforting if big bears live in the woods you frequent.

You're on the right track it sounds like. If you have never had a 1911, I'd recommend to try one out. I went through many many years of gun ownership before I bought my first one and now I can't think of being without one. I still like and own other handguns and several revolvers for hunting, but the 1911's have a special niche. Good luck!

Probably. Still, if you know there's a reasonable chance of such an encounter, shouldn't you properly prepare for it? One big difference between hunting any kind of dangerous game, and a chance encounter, is that if you have a chance encounter, you're going to be more scared by the encounter than if you were actually hunting the animal. Fright makes for poor marksmanship for most of us, why compound the situation by only carrying a marginal caliber for such a potential encounter? If you want a 45 ACP, then by all means get one. But get it because you want it, and for no other reason. There's nothing wrong with that at all...

Bob

If there is needed an alternative to the 45 ACP, one is easily at hand.

Pick the round that the ACP was designed to replace/imitate and in a modern firearm. 45 LC in Ruger Blackhawk, an S&W Mtn. Gun, or a Taurus Tracker. Any of the three of these will suffice to do the same thing that the 1911 will do (which, BTW, I have previously stated is an excellent choice and "needed" by Chris). Also, all three have 4 to 5 inch barrels, making them as packable as the 1911, and the Taurus has the option of titanium for lighter weight (though giving up one round, 5 v. 6). The Ruger, though heavier and SA, will take much heavier loads. The S&W is very well made and very balanced, perhaps a good compromise for the intended use. All are accurate and reliable.

Just thought I'd mention these, as well as the exact same revolvers in .44 Mag, with the benefit of .44 Special light loads for practice. Since Chris is familiar with revolvers, these, IMHO, ought to at least be considered. No sense settling on a firearm without considering all the alternatives, esp. if the alternatives give rise to a "justification" for another addition to the safe (say, a 1911 for self-defense/CCW and a 45LC revolver for field use?)

anachronism-

You wrote about the way that shooting skills fail under stress. I've never been in a deadly personal encounter but judging from some of the blunders I've seen in the hunting field, I'd say you're right. And if anything, that is one of the strongest arguments in favor of a 1911 automatic. They have got to be just about the easiest major caliber handgun to shoot well under stress. From the competition arena- be it IPSC, Bianchi Cup, IDPA- to the military context, competitors and warriors alike continue to choose the 1911 because its fine ergonomics and good, repeatable trigger offer the highest possible hit potential.

In general no one would ever argue that the 45 ACP is the best medicine for irate predators. It's even been known to fail on a human adversary once or twice. But consider this. For generations, outdoorsmen- cowboys, prospectors, outfitters, explorers, game wardens- relied on cartridges like the 44-40, the 44 Special and the 45 Colt. They used these venerable rounds to repel human foes, to drop raging bulls and crazed horses. And I'm sure one or two sourdoughs out there used it in defense against a bear. Now consider that the 45 ACP can be loaded with a hardcast bullet possesing a decently large meplat. With modern powders, those same bullets can be driven to 950 fps with ease and safety. In other words, one can reproduce the ballistics of those other well-proven field rounds and maintain all the advantages of the 1911 platform. Again. Is it ideal? No. Will it work? As well as anything else.

I'm also at a point in my life where I am beginning to question the supremacy of the revolver as a field weapon. We all champion their reliability in the field but the more I study the subject, the less sure I am of the assumption that revolvers are the best choice because of their low maintenance requirement. After all, the armies of the world subject their handguns to extremes that most of us will never know. And they adopted the autoloader many decades ago. Obviously, a revolver is never a mistake. That's especially true if you want real power. But in a world of compromises, a 1911 with a stout 230 grain hardcast bullet loaded to about 900 to 950 fps is not the worst thing in a world.

Chris57K, we haven't heard what you plan to do with the gun. For personal protection against man and mamals smaller than Brown Bear, the .45acp is a great round. The pistol you choose depends on where you're taking it, and how much you're willing to practice. If you don't want to "earn your stripes" practicing with an semi-auto, then stick with a revolver in a caliber of .41 or bigger for general outdoors open carry. For an autoloader, the Glock is most simple to learn the manual of arms, and is also very impervious to neglect while pursuing other outdoor activities. The 1911 requires more training/practice, and maintenance, but the payoff is very high, and the 1911 design has a strong cult following for good reason. The 45acp is the first and best cartridge for the 1911 design.

The .45 ACP has proven fight stopping ability, and the 1911 is the most shootable and easiest to carry and conceal of any auto design going. It is a time proven package for self-defense concealed carry. In the area of a hunting and the outdoors, however, it is adequate at best. To restate what others have said, you need two guns. For the field, get a stainless .44 Magnum revolver. For concealed carry get something like the Smith and Wesson 1911Sc, which is a lightweight commander type of 1911 which is well made, light weight and durable, due to having a frame made from a scandium alloy. Nothing wrong with a full size/weight 1911 either, as the design is easy to carry and conceal, due to flatness, and the weight will absorb a lot of recoil. The Springfield TRP would be a great choice for that, IMHO. Good luck.