|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,433
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,433 |
If I had a buddy call me up and tell me he's been watching a giant black bear every morning come out on the beach, I'd have no problem having him take me there to kill it..
So I guess I shouldn't have a problem if a outfitter service locates a large buck, keeps an eye on it, slaps a big price tag on it, and finds somebody willing to pay to kill it. It's just good business for outfitters to locate those large bucks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177 |
Wonder where AndyG went?  Come on Andy, make some more "Guarantees" for us! Still LMAO about his comments... Drum Don't laugh so hard just yet...I have no opinion one way or the other but lookat the below post and give me your thoughts on where to draw the line on fair chase ethical hunting... ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: [email protected]> To: ..... Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 12:11:55 PM Subject: What may possibly have happened This outfitter has been proven in the past to have located some bucks before the season. They have been known to locate some bucks for hunters and to take the said hunters right to the last location of where they saw those bucks. Having said that, many outfitters do that for clients, including videoing, taking trail cam photos and collecting sheds to show hunters exactly what they are paying for to hunt with them.At this time, I have no further information. Draw your own conclusions. As to the other question: While all the information on the Spiderbull is unfortunate and some may say borders on non-ethical sportsmanship, even if borderline "fair chase", it begs the question of where some outfitters and some socalled hunters' ethics and morals really are. I would consider it "unethical" if a guide or outfitter DIDNT scout during the pre season. Isnt that what your paying for? This is HILARIOUS!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414 |
I suppose that if I had hired an outfitter for a hard-to-draw tag in an area I was unfamiliar with, I'd be kinda pissed if I showed up and was informed he'd not even been out scouting, so as to be "fair" and "start from scratch"...... Ahhh...but many outfitters in AZ and across the U.S. take it to extremes. Some will charge you based on the size of the animal you see in their Youtube videos and trail-cam photos! Look at this AZ and UT outfitter: Prices can vary based on needs, wants, and time in the field.
Utah Mule Deer
7 Day Limited Entry Hunt
Arizona Rifle Mule Deer
6 Day Limited Entry Hunt
Arizona Archery Mule Deer
Call For Available Dates
So, if I have only 3 days to hunt, want a B&C trophy Mulie, need to see photos/video, then the price is $$$$$. Fair chase, right? Wrong! Some 'people', not true hunters (of which there are fewer and fewer), pay big $$$$$ for a high-percentage chance at being brought right to a B&C or P&Y record book buck that they saw on video or in photos and that has been followed, scouted, photographed and video'd for months and sometimes for years and whose shed antlers have been scored in advance!?! Is this "fair chase"? P.S. Call up 10 well-known outfitters/booking agents for Mulies and ask them what they have on video/photos/shed etc...and how much it would cost to get the one in the photo/video etc.! You'll be surprised at their answers!! I've heard $20K-$40K+ for a B&C Mule Deer; at the SCI convention no less!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042 |
What part of, Chad Smith is known for no cameras and no shuteplanes, did you miss in my post. I don't know the guy but know the rep of most outfitters from other guides and his is top notch.
You pay for the knowledge a guy has of the country and representative animals. I bet he charged his usual fee. He better have had some bucks located, that's what he is paid for.
Kent
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177 |
I suppose that if I had hired an outfitter for a hard-to-draw tag in an area I was unfamiliar with, I'd be kinda pissed if I showed up and was informed he'd not even been out scouting, so as to be "fair" and "start from scratch"...... Ahhh...but many outfitters in AZ and across the U.S. take it to extremes. Some will charge you based on the size of the animal you see in their Youtube videos and trail-cam photos! Look at this AZ and UT outfitter: Prices can vary based on needs, wants, and time in the field.
Utah Mule Deer
7 Day Limited Entry Hunt
Arizona Rifle Mule Deer
6 Day Limited Entry Hunt
Arizona Archery Mule Deer
Call For Available Dates
So, if I have only 3 days to hunt, want a B&C trophy Mulie, need to see photos/video, then the price is $$$$$. Fair chase, right? Wrong! Some 'people', not true hunters (of which there are fewer and fewer), pay big $$$$$ for a high-percentage chance at being brought right to a B&C or P&Y record book buck that they saw on video or in photos and that has been followed, scouted, photographed and video'd for months and sometimes for years and whose shed antlers have been scored in advance!?! Is this "fair chase"? P.S. Call up 10 well-known outfitters/booking agents for Mulies and ask them what they have on video/photos/shed etc...and how much it would cost to get the one in the photo/video etc.! You'll be surprised at their answers!! I've heard $20K-$40K+ for a B&C Mule Deer; at the SCI convention no less! AndyG, why did you change your name to John_Gregori? Lets just focus on this particular deer. First of all, you have to draw this tag and its a TOUGH damn draw. Second, there are NO GUARANTEES on the Arizona Strip. In a normal year you can pattern deer because they need water and its not in abundant supply out there. This year there was a ton of rain and flooding on the Strip and the patterns changed dramatically, you went from limited water supplys to an abundance of water in a matter of days. Deer that you could "pattern" were now nowhere to be found. Do you really think that you can buy an archery buck on public ground, much less one particular buck? I wish I knew of a guide that was that good, hell, I wish I were that good. Kudos to the hunter and to the guide and outfitter for this great buck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177 |
What part of, Chad Smith is known for no cameras and no shuteplanes, did you miss in my post. I don't know the guy but know the rep of most outfitters from other guides and his is top notch.
You pay for the knowledge a guy has of the country and representative animals. I bet he charged his usual fee. He better have had some bucks located, that's what he is paid for.
Kent AndyG just got butt hurt and signed up today under a new name(John_Gregori). He got owned earlier in the thread and hes grasping at straws now
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042 |
Something is weird for sure.
It's him or Lee24... or both.
I suppose if I scout for my dec muzzy hunt I'm unethical, and if I luck out and kill a nice one, it was pen raised because there are no mature deer left on public grounds. If I glass one up and stalk it... that's unethical... I need to wander around the flats and spook'm up and wing shoot'm.
Kent
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 537
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 537 |
John_Gregori (aka AndyG?),
You're off to a poor start here at the 'Fire. Bad form to come into the downstream side of a thread and change its title to argue your point. Do us all a favor and change it back to its orignal title.
Debasing another hunter's accomplishment with said alteration without knowing any details of how he hunted shows equally poor judgement.
You might want to consider changing your post name one more time and trying again on another thread. Maybe the third try will bring the charm you're looking for?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414 |
Lets just focus on this particular deer. That says a lot. HA! Do you think that what I described is "Fair Chase"? Yes or No. BTW, I do not know who you are referring to.
"The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization"-- Emerson
Support outdoor sports and our hunting-conservationist heritage; hunt with high morals and ethical standards
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,808
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,808 |
Lets just focus on this particular deer. That says a lot. HA! Do you think that what I described is "Fair Chase"? Yes or No. BTW, I do not know who you are referring to. OK - lets say this deer was photo'd -camera'd - video'd - baited - patterned months in advance - known to be a world class buck - basically its a new era of scouting - this deer was scouted in advanced - big deal- its fair chase if the hunter had to hunt and as stated before any deer takin archery is a great accomplishment - they are not penned or tied down - 1000 things can go wrong and generally do - \If in fact you are hunter yourself - you should know this ! YES its stll fair chance - there are no guarentees on hunting ! especially monster muleys - I've been anumerous hunts -scouting and find nice animals I want to harvest - come opening morning - gone - never even seen the entire hunt. It happens state wide on every species.
AZCOUES___Border Rat Clan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042 |
Hmmm,it gets better... Wonder where AndyG went? Come on Andy, make some more "Guarantees" for us! Still LMAO about his comments... Drum Don't laugh so hard just yet...I have no opinion one way or the other but lookat the below post and give me your thoughts on where to draw the line on fair chase ethical hunting... ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: [email protected]> To: ..... Sent: Fri, September 3, 2010 12:11:55 PM Subject: What may possibly have happened This outfitter has been proven in the past to have located some bucks before the season. They have been known to locate some bucks for hunters and to take the said hunters right to the last location of where they saw those bucks. Having said that, many outfitters do that for clients, including videoing, taking trail cam photos and collecting sheds to show hunters exactly what they are paying for to hunt with them.At this time, I have no further information. Draw your own conclusions. As to the other question: While all the information on the Spiderbull is unfortunate and some may say borders on non-ethical sportsmanship, even if borderline "fair chase", it begs the question of where some outfitters and some socalled hunters' ethics and morals really are. Why do people think we are stupid.
Lets just focus on this particular deer. That says a lot. HA! Do you think that what I described is "Fair Chase"? Yes or No. BTW, I do not know who you are referring to.You quote the name and refer to it, but you have no idea who the one in question is, because you realy didn't read this thread, well only the parts you are opining about... but... who is AndyG???? NOT MEEEEEE!!!! Kent
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414 |
I suppose that if I had hired an outfitter for a hard-to-draw tag in an area I was unfamiliar with, I'd be kinda pissed if I showed up and was informed he'd not even been out scouting, so as to be "fair" and "start from scratch"...... Ahhh...but many outfitters in AZ and across the U.S. take it to extremes. Some will charge you based on the size of the animal you see in their Youtube videos and trail-cam photos! Look at this AZ and UT outfitter: Prices can vary based on needs, wants, and time in the field.
Utah Mule Deer
7 Day Limited Entry Hunt
Arizona Rifle Mule Deer
6 Day Limited Entry Hunt
Arizona Archery Mule Deer
Call For Available Dates
So, if I have only 3 days to hunt, want a B&C trophy Mulie, need to see photos/video, then the price is $$$$$. Fair chase, right? Wrong! Some 'people', not true hunters (of which there are fewer and fewer), pay big $$$$$ for a high-percentage chance at being brought right to a B&C or P&Y record book buck that they saw on video or in photos and that has been followed, scouted, photographed and video'd for months and sometimes for years and whose shed antlers have been scored in advance!?! Is this "fair chase"? P.S. Call up 10 well-known outfitters/booking agents for Mulies and ask them what they have on video/photos/shed etc...and how much it would cost to get the one in the photo/video etc.! You'll be surprised at their answers!! I've heard $20K-$40K+ for a B&C Mule Deer; at the SCI convention no less!
"The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization"-- Emerson
Support outdoor sports and our hunting-conservationist heritage; hunt with high morals and ethical standards
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042 |
You are one of 4 possibles...
I really don't care which one/ones...
opps, make that 5 counting JM... just say'n
Kent
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,808
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,808 |
hey andy- john - who ever - just let one of these 2 answer this -Please - more than likely this guy didnt have the big bucks - If in fact the guide wanted big $$$$ he could have really held out !
if ya know about az and the guides and how they work -and their ethics - can you answer me one question - do you have any idea what was paid for the governors tag for mule deer this yr in az or last year for that matter !- this is a tag good for the whole yr. anywhere in the state -
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414 |
Tags can run anywhere from 5-6 figures at auction. Some of these outfitters can only sell to tag-holders so they drop the price a little to anywhere from $10K-$50K+ for guys who have the bucks to spend on bucks! Next thing for outfitters- they'll be tracking the deer via Google Earch Satellite and texting coordinates to receive $50K just for the GPS coordinates! 
"The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization"-- Emerson
Support outdoor sports and our hunting-conservationist heritage; hunt with high morals and ethical standards
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 537
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 537 |
John/Andy/?,
I'll kindly ask you again to please remove your "Unethical or not?" addition to this thread's title. If you'd like to see a thread with such a title, you should start a new one rather than change an existing thread title from someone else.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,808
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,808 |
Tags can run anywhere from 5-6 figures at auction. Some of these outfitters can only sell to tag-holders so they drop the price a little to anywhere from $10K-$50K+ for guys who have the bucks to spend on bucks! Next thing for outfitters- they'll be tracking the deer via Google Earch Satellite and texting coordinates to receive $50K just for the GPS coordinates! you are a funny guy must be Andy - still got his head up his arse! who else would these outfitters sell hunts too butt to tag holders! DUHH just for knowledge - the governors tag last yr sold for 120 thousand something - this yr it sold for 250 thousand - so really BIG $$$$$$- this governors tag holder didnt hunt this buck - if vaquero outfitters were in it for the BIG $$$$ they coulda got a hold of this guy don't ya think- knowing he'd really payout for aworld record. dollar to a dime - this buck was taken fair chase by a normal client - this buck appeared- maybe -possible was known to be in area by outfitter - but when you have a paying client with a valid tag and this type buck appears - the hunt is on - world record or not - so get your head out ur arse about the ethics crap- move on - enough said - i hope
AZCOUES___Border Rat Clan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042 |
John/Andy/?,
I'll kindly ask you again to please remove your "Unethical or not?" addition to this thread's title. If you'd like to see a thread with such a title, you should start a new one rather than change an existing thread title from someone else.
Yep
Last edited by krp; 09/03/10.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,433
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,433 |
just for knowledge - the governors tag last yr sold for 120 thousand something - this yr it sold for 250 thousand - so really BIG $$$$$$-
Wow, a quarter mil for a tag.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,808
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,808 |
sorry got my numbers mixed---205,000--my bad
AZCOUES___Border Rat Clan
|
|
|
|
|
164 members (5sdad, 10gaugemag, 44mc, 2500HD, 35, 14 invisible),
1,679
guests, and
997
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,120
Posts18,483,620
Members73,966
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
