Taken on the Strip this month.

This thing is a monster. Gross scores at 240:

New world record Arizona archery mule deer?

All I can say is wow!!!

I'm not a mulie fan-prefer the looks of whitetail racks, but that one might make me move off my hard and fast position a bit. That is a wonderful trophy!! Way to go!

There are actually 3 bucks that have been killed so far that have enough bone to get it done. The strip buck is a giant but not sure how those extras and symmetry will hurt his final net score. Let me say right now, nets are for fish! There was a Utah buck killed this past week that should net over 210" and another AZ buck that's going to be in the hunt as well. Unreal year so far!

wow

That 2 wows, aw heck with it wow!

Big deal. Guarranteed that deer was shot on some 20,000 acre deer "farm" where the deer are raised, monitored, and followed from cradle to grave. These animals are cattle, not game. I was watching "Innerloc" deer hunting on the Outdoor Channel yesterday. These guys had a 2.5 year old 8 point walk up to their blind and was sniffing the window. The guy could reach out and touch the deer. This is hunting?

There are no "deer farms" on the Arizona Strip. It's about as remote a country as you'll find in the state.

Plan on taking at least two spare tires and a jerry can of fuel if you're going in deep into that unit.

Is this hunting? Yes, hunting mature mulies with a bow in AZ unit 13B is about as real as you can get.

Here's an excerpt from AZ Game and Fish department website:

"Regardless if you will be hunting with a bow or a rifle in the unit, keep in mind there are few access issues in this unit; over 90% of the lands are federally or state owned. The area is one of the most unpopulated in Arizona, and hunters should be prepared to camp in remote areas with no services available. Bring shelter and plenty of food, water, extra fuel, and extra spare tires. The closest full service communities to the unit are Mesquite, Nevada and St. George, Utah, both on Interstate 15.

Weather in the unit during the general deer hunt is unpredictable; it can be anything from relatively warm and dry to snowing. All hunters, archery or general, should be prepared for inclement weather. Many of the roads in the unit become extremely muddy if wet, and can only be negotiated with 4WD vehicles.

Scouting the unit prior to hunting is highly recommended. The vastness of this unit often makes this a daunting task and hunters can feel overwhelmed. Try a systematic approach starting in the southern portions of the unit, and working your way north. General hunters remember, the deer you find in September may not be where you find them in November, especially if it snows. In addition, one glassing spot will not give you a bird�s eye view of the unit. You need to stay mobile during the hunt; willing to move around to new areas if the area you are in isn�t producing.

Be aware of burn out in this unit. It is not uncommon to go many days without seeing deer, and it is easy to get discouraged. Finally, don�t try and hunt the entire unit. Pick 5 or so core areas you like and stick with them. The 30� Strip mule deer may not show himself for many days."

If this were true, you would find about 99% of the members on this forum in agreement with you on the "Big deal" part. However, on what do you base your "guarantee"? You obviously know something we don't. Please share.

Thanks.

In response in Armen & Big Sky. I did some research and the buck was shot while being guided by Vaquero Outfitters, who run 600,000 acres of Arizona private land. Like I said, monster bucks are farmed. Modern hunting doesn't allow public land bucks to mature because there are just too many humans on too much land and the bucks never get to their potential size. Another world record that was bought. Whooppee!!

http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20537

http://www.vaquero-outfitters.com/

Having 600,000 acres leased is a far cry from farming deer.

You missed the point. I'm saying that when you have that much land, and no one there but you, you can montior and follow, contol their food and water, and basically "grow" monster bucks. After enough generations, you can let some walk, kill the lesser bucks. And when all things line up and you end up with a monster world record walking around, that no one can see but you because you farmed this 600,000 acre expanse, you find some rich guy to fork over money and "hunt" the animal. You therefore bought a farmed world record. What I didn't mean is that the ranch farms them like cattle and releases them from pens.

AndyG,

I looked at both links you posted and I don't see where they stated or inferred that this buck was hunted on private land, 600,000 acres or otherwise.

The outfitter's link does say that they have access to (as opposed to owning) 600,000 acres of private land, but that doesn't imply that this buck was taken that way. Their website also states they hunt all over the state of Arizona and other regions - they're not limited to private ranches.

Secondly, even if the buck was taken on private land, it doesn't mean the owners of that land manage their deer any differently then how the AZGFD would mangage them.

I've hunted private land by asking access permission from the landowner. Would that lessen the quality of the deer I bagged, or the honest effort I put forth to do the same?

What would you say about Montana hunters who hunt antelope on private land in their own state every year? Are they any less of a hunter than the guy who hunts NF land?

I agree that hunting high-fence ranch "raised" deer might be questionable to some. But, I see nothing anywhere that indicates this buck was taken that way.

600,000 acres and you think this was not fair chase? Wow........ no high fence and this was not fair chase?

That is bigger then many of the Islands in SE Alaska so are all those big brown bear trophies that are fenced by the sea not fair chase?

This whole fair chase thing has reached a new and previously unattainable level! Now open unfenced land that is private is not fair chase? How many farms in the midwest are closed to all hunting, except for the family that owns them, are they not fair chase cause they are not "public" ?

So fair chase is now only public land? Oregon has a huge reserve for elk research. It's all high fenced. It's public land, but the tags are by drawing. Is this fair chase cause it's public land? But it's high fenced!

It's one thing to claim this on a Dr. Jimmy Steigers " Monster whitetail" property. where the deer are genetically engineered to score 300plus and released for a guy to shoot. However 600,00 unfenced acres for wild free ranging mule deer cannot be compared!

Can you imagine how much the high fence, riding around monitoring the buck and changing his diet cost? Uffti, much more money that I've got I can tell you that.



BTW, that is almost 950 square miles. Laid out like a pool table it's prolly closer to 3000.

I get the feeling that this is not about fair chase with Andy, but it is about his animosity toward people who can afford such things.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

How anyone could find a way to beotch about a fellow hunter taking a great buck sans fence truly escapes me.

This quote has been around a long time but it needs to be brought to your attention

"It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

The Arizona Strip is desolate, rough and damn tough to hunt. The deer densities are low and the country is vast.

If you think that this was a canned hunt then your an absolute idiot. You've already made it abundantly clear that you have no clue.

Here is some info on the Strip. The Strip has a total surface area of 7,878.11 sq mi(5,041,990 acres). Its land area is larger than that of the state of Massachusetts, and comprises 6.9 percent of Arizona's land area. Granted, the unit that he drew is a mere fraction of that but you get the idea

Dude slips in and smacks a potential world record on the Strip(public ground) with a stick and string and you call it "bought" and "farmed". I assure you the only person to "feed and water" these deer was Mother Nature. I've seen people say some really stupid crap on internet forums but your posts have taken it to a whole new level.

See the above quote in bold as it really does apply to you

Drummond

Jealous moron...

600,000 acres is no farm deer!

I will add that I hate the "style" of the picture taken in the first link. The deer is far in front of him to make it look larger than it actually is. Ain't no doubt it is big but it looks fake when done this way, just like the bass tourn. pics.

RH

Tell that guy to throw it up on a pickup tailgate next time for his field pics. Yeah, that'll work. Or a concrete garage floor with the tongue hanging out....those are my favorites.

I also really like the pictures where they sit on its back and put either the arrow or the rifle in the rack. The only way to make this picture work though is if you don't smile. In fact, a scowl really sets this pose off! Lmao

and I don't like his goofy hat... and his camo doesn't match!

Thats right....and he can say it sux to be us!!

Thats a frikkin pig any way you slice it. I say good on him!!

You might wear out a few horses riding that fence. Funny how some people can turn "600,000 acres leased" into a farm raised deer on public land. Congrats to the guy for an awesome deer.

Can anyone please point to where I said anything about fair chase or high fences. I didn't say anything about canned hunts either. I never said anything about public land being better or more respected than private land.

I did say that I thought I was misunderstood and that I didn't mean the deer are raised like cattle and let out of pens.

Look, these outfitters are in business to make money, bottom line. They manage the land to produce big bucks. The more you can afford, the bigger buck you can shoot. And anyone who thinks that these outfitters don't have a caravan of SUV's patolling the land with spotting scopes and radioing to each other are kidding themselves. Thats's how the shooter finds a buck like this on 600,000 acres. That's why I said "another record buck was bought". This guy had enough money to pay the outfitter to shoot the biggest buck on their land. And yes, I feel this way about anyone who would rather pay money to be led to a monster buck, than to work hard and be happy with what his work panned out.

It was killed on public land dumbass

You really think that the outfitter "managed" and "grew" this buck on public ground so a rich client could come and kill him? You should really not comment on things you know nothing about.

You have to draw this tag and anybody that drew that tag had an opportunity to hunt this particular deer. There was nothing exclusive about it.

Reading comments like yours make me want to puke

You show me where it says the deer was shot on public land. I can show you where it says the outfitter that the man paid, controls over 600,000 acres. Which any dumbass like you can figure out, if a man is paying me enough to shoot a world record, I'm taking him to the private land, not public. PS, you're insults draw away any quality reasoning you have, it only makes you look like a country bumpkin.

Some people just have an axe to grind (in this case, it's obviously about money) and, I suspect, little big-country mulie experience -- and they won't let facts or common sense get in the way of an uninformed or ill-considered opinion.

Just out of curiosity, it would be entertaining to know just how much mule deer experience he's had in the West... or in Arizona... or in the Strip, specifically, which any mule-deer-hunter worthy of the name knows is famous for producing both big deer and tough hunts. Perhaps they don't see much of that back in Philly.

Actually, I have posted before about the wolves in Idaho, that I am new to Philadelphia. I have only been here about 5 years now. I spent the previous 30 near Coeur D'Alene, ID. Just north by Twin Lakes. So, I may not know about AZ hunts, but I do know about muley hunts. And I know enough that if you draw a tag, you and an outfitter don't just dumbluck stuble upon a world record, regardless of place or species.

And I wouldn't really say I have an axe to grind. I just have little respect for people who pay to be led to big bucks instead of working for a buck that's a trophy to them. The little respect would be none except for the fact that they are hunters and I would stand by them than against them.

I could give a rats ass what you could "show me" on an outfitters website. If you were educated whatsoever on what your talking about you would realize that some of the very best, if not THE very best, mule deer hunting in the world is on the Arizona Strip, which is public. You give any educated or informed mule deer hunter the option of hunting a 600,000 acre private ranch south of the Grand Canyon or the Strip, they'd take the Strip every damn time. So your basically an idiot if you would do what you said you would do and hunt the private ranch over the Strip. Furthermore, the private ground he has access to may be 600,000 acres but thats not just one ranch, thats a number of properties that combine to make 600,000 acres.

As for insults, it pisses me off every time I see some numbnut, such as yourself, come on and demean such an amazing accomplishment without knowing a damn thing about what they are commenting on. IMO, you insulted the hunter, the guide, the deer and the area by making those comments. Heck, comments like that are an insult to the sport of hunting in general because assumptions and rumors like that do nothing but hurt this sport.

My advice to you is to keep your mouth shut until after you've done more "research" on hunting out west.

Drummond

No, you really dont if you've never heard of the Arizona Strip.

Saying that because you lived in Idaho for 30 years and because of your past residency you know about mule deer hunts would be like me claiming to know all about golf because I live on a golf course or knowing about brain surgery because I live close to a hospital. Your reasoning skills and your research skills are on par with one another

Drummond

Well mr. anger management, if you would bother to read, I just said that I'm from northern Idaho. And that maybe I don't know about Arizona, but I do know about hunting the west. By the way you are so insulted, you must be either a richy rich trophy shooter (keyword, shooter-not hunter), or, by your rantings, a borderline alcoholic. Cheers, now go beat your wife and kick the dog.

Huntsonora, yes, it's exactly the same, stupid. Thats why I spend time here, because I am not a hunter and outdoorsman.

I am a hunter. I have hunted and killed mulies on both public and private land. By my own scouting and determination, not by paying someone to take me to them.

So by your logic, anyone who pays a guide or outfitter to hunt any animal anywhere on the planet deserves "little respect?" Or do you apply that logic solely to deer hunting? You've also made an astonishing leap to the mind-boggling conclusion that anyone who pays a guide or outfitter doesn't really "work for a buck?" And just how do you know that with certainty?

The more you argue, the deeper you dig the hole you've stepped into.

Wow, you really don't pay attention do you, If you need help pulling your foot out give me a call LOL.

Whats more astonishing is you're ability to twist my words. Where do you make the leap from me saying "...pay to led to big bucks.." to you saying " anyone, anywhere on the planet hunting any animal". Did I say that, no. So go dig yourself a hole and fill it with words you want to put in my mouth.

Outfitters do have a place. Outfitters who only pander to rich trophy shooters are not hunters and poor for the sport.

Pay attention to what, the insluts. I'm not trying to make valid points and filling them with insults. I'm only insulting, just to insult.

Those types of pics suck too. Maybe I just hate pictures...I don't know.

RH

So outfitters that guide people to dinks are fine, but the good ones are the problem?!?

That's one hell of a buck. Kudos to the hunter.

I saw a picture yesterday of a potential WR Sitka Non typical that was killed last weekend in my neck of the woods by some local boys. Sure gets your blood pumping knowing those big guys are still out there on public land!

I'm not twisting your words. You went from this statement about it being a 20,000 acre deer farm



To this statement that was just as absurd, you just bumped up your acreage estimation to 600,000 acres instead of 20,000 acres




I especially like when you said that "Modern hunting doesnt allow public bucks to mature" Dude! Thats HILARIOUS considering this was a public land buck

You then come back on and say that the outfitter patrols the 600,000 acres they're hunting even after its been pointed out that the buck was killed on public ground




And finally, you made some ridiculous claims about how private land is better than public and that any "dumb ass" knows that




"Im taking him to the private land, not public" LMAO!!!!!

It's BLATANTLY obvious that you are absolutely clueless! You wonder why people like me get fired up, its because people like you will come up with anything to try and discredit a hunters accomplishment for no apparent reason. Every time a big animal hits the ground and word spreads there is a douchebag just like you on every internet message board, local bar and grill or anyplace hunters congregate that comes up with some BS conspiracy theory or story to bring them down.

What makes you an even bigger douchebag is that when it had become obvious you were wrong you just kept at it instead of admitting you made a mistake. A real man would own it, you didnt, you just kept at it.

You claim to have moved from Idaho, did you make residence in West Virginia first and used to go by the handle "wvhunter"? You guys remind me alot of one another

Drum

I didn't twist your words. I simply pointed out the gigantic flaw in your argument (and logic), which in turn led you to backtrack and admit that outfitters do have a place -- just not in hunting trophy mule deer, apparantly. So just where do you draw the line? Outfitters are OK for some species and not for others? Are they OK in Africa and the far north, but not the lower 48? Or do you simply draw the line over the actual cost of a hunt? Is $2500 OK and $7500 not OK? Or do you have a mandatory degree of difficulty which separates real hunters from your "rich trophy shooters?"

You've perched yourself upon a mighty lofty, if slippery, slope, with your baseless accusations of farmed deer and generalized criticism of anyone who "pays to be led to big bucks."

I would counter that outfitters who "only pander to rich trophy shooters," as you put it, are far less a danger to the sport than hunters who instantly attack other hunters and accuse them of harvesting farmed deer, "guaranteed," as you asserted, without so much as a shred of evidence to support your claim.

Nevermind the fact that you admit to knowing nothing about hunting mulies on "The Strip," one of the nation's most famed mulie hunting areas. Simply being guided in that country, by the way, does NOT guarantee you a trophy animal. Ask the many who have tried and failed.

You should realize there's a reason most commentators in this thread have called BS on your original criticism: "Guarranteed that deer was shot on some 20,000 acre deer "farm" where the deer are raised, monitored, and followed from cradle to grave." Wiggle all you want. You fired that opening salvo, without the benefit of factual knowledge, and you should expect to be called on it.

Of course, if you actually knew what you were talking about re. hunting mulies on The Strip, you'd already know how laughable that statement truly is.

What the heck is someone from Philly, opining on Az and western mulie hunting.

Anyway, a lot of absurd comments by AndyG... I drew a Dec muzzy tag for the southwestern part of the state. Tough desert country with few deer, but the bucks do get large and 'Mature', contrary to what Andy say's.

Kent

I'm guessing that after the Spiderbull Circus, more than a few guys are skeptical when they hear about an outfitted hunt producing a WR. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

wheres this guy from PA by way of idaho - like he really has any knowledge of arizona - ANDY stay where you are! you don't have clue one what the hell you are talking about! AZCOUES

I was extremely outspoken on the spider bull fiasco and the negative effects of that type of 'hunting'. It was well chronicled. That was it's own case in many ways and twists.

AndyG's false imaginings about the animal and country hunted in, being raised, whatnot, shows his ignorance and marginalizes any value of him guessing right about other issues.

The funny thing, he's talking about the strip. A inhospitable, sparsely populated, huge land mass of public land, that's one claim to fame is world class mulies, raised by nature and no one else.

If he knows something specific on the way this deer was hunted, then he needs to bring that to light. I have no idea myself so won't comment. I do know he was so far off base on the logistics of country and species in this case to be laughable.

Kent

Just for the sake of curiosity, it'd be nice to hear if the outfitters had that buck located before that hunter showed up for his hunt. Or if they were just glassing and he showed up in somebodies binos. Always interesting to hear how hunts go down.

I've never been on a guided hunt and have hunted mule deer in several western states, almost always on public land. I've taken some great bucks and have been schooled many times also. The hands down toughest hunt I've ever been on was 13A Arizona Strip... it's all public land, very tough to find deer. It was a 10 day hunt during the peak of the rut with a rifle. I spent 14 days hunting alone, without a shower, living in my truck, no visits to any town, in a tent, glassing my ass off all day, every day.. and I went home without. To imply any hunt on the Arizona Strip is easy is pure ignorance.

That's a great buck, awesome!

Just for general infomation - there are lots of ways to hunt the strip- it's never easy - sure outfitters are in business for a reason - they spend the time to get to know the area - but 600,000 - think about it - noway - nohow - you are lucky to get in and out without having major problems -

there are also lots of other outfitters around who hunt the strip
here's just one other who really knows the strip
you really want to droool this morning guys
heres a link - if ya got time click on the video's on t he bottom of the page

http://atfirstlightguides.com/home/?page_id=35&album=1&gallery=3

just for purpose of argument- only like 100 tags available each yr for 13a-b 8000 apply for these tags annually- less than 2 % chance of draw.

I've never used an outfitter but when ya have no knowledge of the area - guides/outfitters can make the differnce in a successful hunt.

to belittle a world class buck taken fairchase on public land -even with the help of an outfitter - shows that you ANDY-
are clueless on the comments you made about this issue!

What I've heard from other guides and such about the outfitters on the strip. They are good'ol'boys, pretty much interconnected, some cowboy that country and that's where their base knowledge comes from.

Since they live and work out in the field, I'm sure they know some of the animals there.

Kent

I'll second the strip being the farthest thing from a "weekend hunt" kind of place. Onto the deer: wow.

Wanna step back and reevaluate? Love the 'Guarantee'...

Anyway, talking with some serious sheep and muley guys, seems both the hunter/dad and outfitter are well respected. It's matches what little I've heard before, just more specific.

Chad Smith, the outfitter, has a reputation of no cameras or flying... just serious glassing and scouting, hard work.

That's the buzz...

Kent

You continue to show up, rarely, and exhibit a level of dumbphuckitude nearly without parallel.

Simply amazing, though poster children for retroactive birth control are hard to come by.

Wonder where AndyG went?

Come on Andy, make some more "Guarantees" for us!

Still LMAO about his comments about how he would hunt the private ground every time and that public bucks arent allowed to grow up anymore because of pressure. Its so damn funny! I also like the part where he said he lived in ID so he knew all about mule deer hunting. What a TOOL!

Drum

Don't laugh so hard just yet...I have no opinion one way or the other but lookat the below post and give me your thoughts on where to draw the line on fair chase ethical hunting...

I suppose that if I had hired an outfitter for a hard-to-draw tag in an area I was unfamiliar with, I'd be kinda pissed if I showed up and was informed he'd not even been out scouting, so as to be "fair" and "start from scratch"......

Now it is unethical for an outfitter to scout?

And also unethical for said outfitter to take a client to the spot where they have located trophy animals?

This entire ethical/non-ethical debate is getting a little ridiculous. None of the above changes the fact that the HUNTER had to work his butt off, be in shape, locate the animal, stock to within bow range, and make a good shot. All in some of the roughest mulie country that there is.

If I had a buddy call me up and tell me he's been watching a giant black bear every morning come out on the beach, I'd have no problem having him take me there to kill it..


So I guess I shouldn't have a problem if a outfitter service locates a large buck, keeps an eye on it, slaps a big price tag on it, and finds somebody willing to pay to kill it. It's just good business for outfitters to locate those large bucks.

I would consider it "unethical" if a guide or outfitter DIDNT scout during the pre season. Isnt that what your paying for?

This is HILARIOUS!!!!!

Ahhh...but many outfitters in AZ and across the U.S. take it to extremes. Some will charge you based on the size of the animal you see in their Youtube videos and trail-cam photos!

Look at this AZ and UT outfitter:


So, if I have only 3 days to hunt, want a B&C trophy Mulie, need to see photos/video, then the price is $$$$$. Fair chase, right? Wrong!

Some 'people', not true hunters (of which there are fewer and fewer), pay big $$$$$ for a high-percentage chance at being brought right to a B&C or P&Y record book buck that they saw on video or in photos and that has been followed, scouted, photographed and video'd for months and sometimes for years and whose shed antlers have been scored in advance!?!

Is this "fair chase"?

P.S. Call up 10 well-known outfitters/booking agents for Mulies and ask them what they have on video/photos/shed etc...and how much it would cost to get the one in the photo/video etc.! You'll be surprised at their answers!! I've heard $20K-$40K+ for a B&C Mule Deer; at the SCI convention no less!

What part of, Chad Smith is known for no cameras and no shuteplanes, did you miss in my post. I don't know the guy but know the rep of most outfitters from other guides and his is top notch.

You pay for the knowledge a guy has of the country and representative animals. I bet he charged his usual fee. He better have had some bucks located, that's what he is paid for.

Kent

AndyG, why did you change your name to John_Gregori?

Lets just focus on this particular deer. First of all, you have to draw this tag and its a TOUGH damn draw. Second, there are NO GUARANTEES on the Arizona Strip. In a normal year you can pattern deer because they need water and its not in abundant supply out there. This year there was a ton of rain and flooding on the Strip and the patterns changed dramatically, you went from limited water supplys to an abundance of water in a matter of days. Deer that you could "pattern" were now nowhere to be found. Do you really think that you can buy an archery buck on public ground, much less one particular buck? I wish I knew of a guide that was that good, hell, I wish I were that good. Kudos to the hunter and to the guide and outfitter for this great buck

AndyG just got butt hurt and signed up today under a new name(John_Gregori). He got owned earlier in the thread and hes grasping at straws now

Something is weird for sure.

It's him or Lee24... or both.

I suppose if I scout for my dec muzzy hunt I'm unethical, and if I luck out and kill a nice one, it was pen raised because there are no mature deer left on public grounds. If I glass one up and stalk it... that's unethical... I need to wander around the flats and spook'm up and wing shoot'm.

Kent

John_Gregori (aka AndyG?),

You're off to a poor start here at the 'Fire. Bad form to come into the downstream side of a thread and change its title to argue your point. Do us all a favor and change it back to its orignal title.

Debasing another hunter's accomplishment with said alteration without knowing any details of how he hunted shows equally poor judgement.

You might want to consider changing your post name one more time and trying again on another thread. Maybe the third try will bring the charm you're looking for?

That says a lot. HA! Do you think that what I described is "Fair Chase"? Yes or No.

BTW, I do not know who you are referring to.

OK - lets say this deer was photo'd -camera'd - video'd - baited - patterned months in advance - known to be a world class buck -


basically its a new era of scouting - this deer was scouted in advanced - big deal- its fair chase if the hunter had to hunt and as stated before any deer takin archery is a great accomplishment - they are not penned or tied down - 1000 things can go wrong and generally do - \If in fact you are hunter yourself - you should know this !

YES its stll fair chance - there are no guarentees on hunting ! especially monster muleys - I've been anumerous hunts -scouting and find nice animals I want to harvest - come opening morning - gone - never even seen the entire hunt. It happens state wide on every species.

Hmmm,it gets better...



Why do people think we are stupid.



You quote the name and refer to it, but you have no idea who the one in question is, because you realy didn't read this thread, well only the parts you are opining about... but... who is AndyG???? NOT MEEEEEE!!!!

Kent

Ahhh...but many outfitters in AZ and across the U.S. take it to extremes. Some will charge you based on the size of the animal you see in their Youtube videos and trail-cam photos!

Look at this AZ and UT outfitter:


So, if I have only 3 days to hunt, want a B&C trophy Mulie, need to see photos/video, then the price is $$$$$. Fair chase, right? Wrong!

Some 'people', not true hunters (of which there are fewer and fewer), pay big $$$$$ for a high-percentage chance at being brought right to a B&C or P&Y record book buck that they saw on video or in photos and that has been followed, scouted, photographed and video'd for months and sometimes for years and whose shed antlers have been scored in advance!?!

Is this "fair chase"?

P.S. Call up 10 well-known outfitters/booking agents for Mulies and ask them what they have on video/photos/shed etc...and how much it would cost to get the one in the photo/video etc.! You'll be surprised at their answers!! I've heard $20K-$40K+ for a B&C Mule Deer; at the SCI convention no less!

You are one of 4 possibles...

I really don't care which one/ones...

opps, make that 5 counting JM... just say'n

Kent

hey andy- john - who ever - just let one of these 2 answer this -Please - more than likely this guy didnt have the big bucks - If in fact the guide wanted big $$$$ he could have really held out !
if ya know about az and the guides and how they work -and their ethics - can you answer me one question - do you have any idea what was paid for the governors tag for mule deer this yr in az or last year for that matter !- this is a tag good for the whole yr. anywhere in the state -

Tags can run anywhere from 5-6 figures at auction. Some of these outfitters can only sell to tag-holders so they drop the price a little to anywhere from $10K-$50K+ for guys who have the bucks to spend on bucks!

Next thing for outfitters- they'll be tracking the deer via Google Earch Satellite and texting coordinates to receive $50K just for the GPS coordinates!

John/Andy/?,

I'll kindly ask you again to please remove your "Unethical or not?" addition to this thread's title. If you'd like to see a thread with such a title, you should start a new one rather than change an existing thread title from someone else.

you are a funny guy must be Andy - still got his head up his arse!
who else would these outfitters sell hunts too butt to tag holders! DUHH

just for knowledge - the governors tag last yr sold for 120 thousand something - this yr it sold for 250 thousand - so really BIG $$$$$$-
this governors tag holder didnt hunt this buck - if vaquero outfitters were in it for the BIG $$$$ they coulda got a hold of this guy don't ya think- knowing he'd really payout for aworld record.

dollar to a dime - this buck was taken fair chase by a normal client - this buck appeared- maybe -possible was known to be in area by outfitter - but when you have a paying client with a valid tag and this type buck appears - the hunt is on - world record or not -

so get your head out ur arse about the ethics crap- move on - enough said - i hope

Yep

Wow, a quarter mil for a tag.

sorry got my numbers mixed---205,000--my bad

+1 on this. Regardless if the client is paying $10 or $10,000.

We'd not be at fault to assume this hunter is an honest guy who worked hard and saved his money to do this hunt.

Ha ha ha. I have no idea who John Gregori is, but I can guarantee one more thing. I guarantee that I have been laughing my a$$ off at you people getting all pissed off. I could care less about Arizona. Although on a side note, I do love the immigration law. Kick those F'ers back to Mexico.

Well, since you proved your guarantees are worthless, your word is worthless, your imaginings are worthless, you have no knowledge from experience or research, you've never hunted in Az, you think it's funny when you lie and others call you on it.

Your self portrait isn't pretty and I pity fools like you.... sorry you're the one that has to be you... must suck.



Kent

That is HUGE!

Thought some of you might be interested in my take on the Strip hunt since I'm holding a 13A tag after applying every year since the points started and even flying out to Az on a Friday night, taking the hunter ed class to get max points, then flying back Sunday so I could get back to work on Monday a couple of years ago.

I scouted/hunted the Kiabab a couple of years ago for 14 days(away from family 16) with one of my hunting partners(tag holder) just to learn the unit thinking I could do it DIY later and didn't even see a buck over 170.

I made the decision then that I would hire an outfitter and hunt the famous Az Strip. When I found out I drew this year I sold my 2002 Chev truck and hired Chad Smith to be my guide(before the pending WR buck was taken) purely on his reputation.

I'm a DIY hunter at heart, but I also know this may be the only time in my life to get a chance at a monster muley and since I can't physically scout the area, I look at it as hiring a good hunting partner that can. I hope you all see my smiling face behind a big ole Strip buck in a couple of months and feel free to bad mouth me as I'll likely get over it while looking at the mount on my wall.

Not so rich or famous,
Clark

Well said Clark.

How do you feel about the AZ gov tag bull this year...notice the name on the pic's?

Last years? the new year just started for 2010/2011.

Alot of controversy and rumors over some of the hunts the last couple years and the Gov tag. I don't want to guess which one you are talking about.

Kent

this year, I know your on MM, you musta missed it.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID12/12419.html

Seldom go there anymore...

Nice bull...

No controversy yet... but it's only been a day...

Well, it was pretty much a given that Mullins wasn't guiding the GT after last year and McCleandon is out of the loop... Back to Mossback.

Kent