Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Why use solids on non-dangerous game?

I guess the actual number of rotations in a given animal body would depend on the initial impact speed and the retained velocity on exit, assuming a pass through. Although , it seems I read somewhere that spin does not decay in direct relation to velocity.

On a non-pass through it would be the initial rotation rate decelerated all the way to zero. I guess we'd be down to calculating rotational friction to find the number of rotations before it stopped.

Both seem like tough calculation challenges.

SS

Tundragriz:

Being a man of impeccable reliability, I performed the promised experiment. I suited up in my Cabelas Guideware, top of the line all weather coat and pants. But I deviated from plan and instead of using a Roto Zip I used a Dramel Multipro, variable speed 1,000 rpm - 35,000 rpm Model 935. I chucked a �" grinding wheel and plunged it into a tomato sauce can 2" in diameter filled with water. It spun water out but didn�t wet my expensive gear.

Being emboldened by that I shed my all weather clothing and filled a 14" diameter aluminum pan, that I use to wash vegetables, with 6" of water. I chucked a .375" diameter O.D. grinding wheel which providentially had a shape of a bullet with a point and a meplat. I started with a modest rpm and then went whole hog. I pushed the rheostat to max, 35,000 rpm. The water showed many bubbles. I couldn�t ascertain any spin to the mass so I tore a corner off of a blue Scotts towel and dropped it into the water as a tattle tale. The piece progresses about 1/4 circumference in 5 seconds and then astonishingly reversed direction and back-flowed. Then it plunged towards the bottom. I terminated the experiment immediately. After much contemplation I am ready to present my observations and conclusions to my peers for review.

� The simulated bullet didn�t have the capability to �spin� a larger mass of water.

� The rough surface of the grinding wheel didn�t contribute to Fannings factor of friction.

� A slick bullet doesn�t have the ability to �spin� an animals ham by friction.

� The multi second experiment applied continuous force to the projectile by supplying electrons. A realtime 2/2500 ths of second realtime contact from a rifle fired bullet has a lesser chance of transferring energy from the projectile to the target.

� A bullet fired from a gun gains it�s energy solely from forward momentum and spin from the rifling. When it encounters resistance it�s energy and torque decay.

� The SI units of Terminal Velocity; Distance; Gravitational Force; Time in Seconds: Kinetic Energy should be take into consideration.

� Angular velocity should be reported in radians.

� Momentum should be reported in kilogramme meter per second. *( kg m/s )

� Moment of force *( torque ) Newton Meter Nm.

� Impact strength; joules per square meter.

References: Civil Engineers Reference Book, 3rd edition, by L.S. Blake, -Buttersworth..

Disclaimer: Conventional torque calculations are not applied due to lack of continuous source of energy.

Bill Tibbe

Mr. Tibbe, would you repeat your last in English? Some of us are curious but don't remember all that much of our physics from college.

Thanks,
SS

Sharp Shooter:

Yes, my man, I'll have to confess to being a little bit insensitive to the plight of my colleagues who have been out of school for a time !!!

There does seem to be a bit of a problem which may cause some delay. It seems that we are attempting to meld two circumstances by utilizing Civil Engineering, Hydrodynamics, Hydraulics and conventional materials testing to living organism's.

We can calculate the compressive, tensional and torsional values of inanimate objects and the performance character mapping of bullets but, it seems, these values are meandering and producing bizarre results when applied to living organisms *( hair, hide, fat, bone, muscle, entrails, gristle, tendons ).

Computer modeling may be the order of the day coupled with medical input.

I just want to prepare everyone now for a possible disappointment. This project may fail. There are many pitfalls and unexplored aspects.

Bill Tibbe <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In all this discussion regarding solids and non-dangerous game, are we forgetting that all those that shoot a lead hardcast projectile from their pistols and lever actioned 45/70s etc... are in effect pretty much doing it already?
Cheers...
Con

RPM imparted by the rifling remains pretty much the same from muzzle to point of impact while the velocity of the bullet falls away rapidly in comparison. The shock comes from how much tissue is being vaporized from the front area of the bullet. Not really needed for large caliber bullets but needed for smaller calibers to compensate for their smaller diameter.

I'll probably never be able to afford Africa. I can't debate the solids issue with this much knowledge. But I really like the message at the bottom of your reply.
It reeks the truth. 9-11 Never forgive, never forget!

BCBrian,
The reason solids are sometimes used, is that when an animal is wounded by a misplaced shot, solids do a good job of raking the animal length wise when it is fleeing, in the hope skewering its vitals. Any shot is justified on a wounded animal to slow it down.
I understand in Africa the PH will do so if you flub the shot.
Other posters mentioned collecting tiny antelopes with large bore solids as another good option.
Solids, are more effective in larger bore diameters, due to the larger wound channel they cut.
The construction of the solid is important too, to insure straight line penetration( parallel sided with blunt round nose or flat point) and the larger the me-plat, the larger the wound channel.
Also, solids act much like hard cast bullets, as some other posters pointed out.
The reason jacketed solids are not allowed here, is the concern that people will use small bore military hard points on in-appropriate shots on big game, like a lung shot behind the shoulder. Sometimes, even small deer can go a long way when hit this way.
Military small bore hard points where allowed, should be reserved for head/neck/spine/heart area shots only.

My experience with solids on game is really with handguns , .357,44.45.375. I never managed to spin any animals to death but I can assure you that a tough solid that gets into bone kills very well indeed. I can't imagine a solid from a rifle being any less lethal.

Why Shoot solid's....
For smaller diameter rifle's such as .366 ( 9.3 )
.375 .416 .423-> ( 404) jeffery... .458 .468

There best use is to brake bone's/ Brake through bone's

Larger diameter bullet such as the .618 and .700 diameter bullet only need to be gilded jacketed to work.



Above are some of my .700 Diameter bullet's .
It has only a 0.050 gilded jacket around a lead core



The above is on the left .. a .510 diameter 525 grain bullet in a 0.040 jacket the other is a .700 lead nose bullet
in a 0.050 gilded jacket...

Bullet's like these will work just as well as a solid when fired through the right rifle's..