Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Which lever action rifle and caliber would be the deadliest?

If you haven't talked to them already your best bet for the work you want on the BLR would be Zhat in Casper.

Screw the BLR! Get a '71, '86, 444ss, or 1895. You know, a REAL big bore lever, not some poser.

"Just recently I built two big bores on the BLR action a 358 and a 416. There were no plastic parts in the action proper. I looked on the parts list that only place such a bushing might be is inside the bolt on the firing pin. This has never been an issue in our shop, but it would be not problem at all to check the parts and make replacement bushings out of metal to insure long life and durability. The rifles we have built on the BLR have not had any problems with recoil and are totaly relaible.
From your comments I would recommend the 416 Taylor, it will fit the action will and feed correctly, and magzine length will not be an issue."
WHEEE! Just got this email from Z-Hat Custom this morning. I had recieved recommendations from a couple of other gunsmiths that if anyone would know, this was the guy. Ranch13 I had spoken with them a while ago about a different rifle, but had not addressed the BLR project in detail. Thanks for the reminder. It looks like my project has been resurected. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Figrued ZHat could give you straight skinny on it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Most folks just don't understand the BLR gives the best of 2 worlds. Handling characteristics of a traditional levergun, and the rotary locking bolt of the vaunted bolt guns.
Looking forward to reading how it all turns out.

BCBrian �

If its stopping power you want, get a Marlin 1895 in .45-70. For maximum penetration load it up with a heavy hardcast like the Garret 540g Hammerheads. I�ve found a 460g Cast Performance WFNGC at 1812fps outpenetrates anything else I�ve tried with one exception � the 500g Speer African Grand Slam Tungsten Solid at 1554fps. The hardcast was captured in the 9th water jug while the AGS Tungsten Solid exited the side of the 9th and buried itself in the earth berm beyond.

I hunt with a North Fork 350g bonded bullet at 2183fps. It�s trajectory is sufficient to take elk at 250 yards with ease (-10.4� and over 1600fpe retained). The bullet is like a Speer Trophy Bonded with a bonded lead core up front and a solid shank in back, but with grooves that reduce friction and pressure which in turn allow higher velocities than would otherwise be possible with this design. The performance of this bullet on the one elk I�ve taken showed it was one tough bullet. I would be just as confident using this bullet against big bears as I would any other.

To demonstrate the power these loads provide, let me explain about the setup we used for water jug penetration testing. We used plastic sawhorses set about 5 feet apart. On top of these we placed two pieces of 5/16� plywood, each about a foot wide and 8 feet long. The top piece was slightly longer and we let the front of it stick out about 8� over the bottom piece. (In other words, the front 8� of the top piece was unsupported.) We used Minute Maid �Family Size� orange juice jugs as targets, setting them one against the next with the lead jug aligned with the front edge of top piece of plywood (the unsupported part). The North Fork load was the first we tested. The bullet blew up 6 water jugs, expanded into a perfect mushroom 0.800� in diameter, and retained 341g or 97.4%. When we went up to inspect the damage we discovered the top piece of plywood was missing a chunk out of the unsupported part. The missing chunk was roughly the same size and outline as the bottom of the first water jug, about 4-3/4� by 6-3/4�. That�s right, the force of the water jug exploding outward simply blew a chunk out of the 5/16� thick plywood!

In terms of jug performance, here�s the data for several bullets:
Jugs, Retained Weight %, Final Diameter, Bullet @ Velocity
9+, 100% assumed, 0.458� assumed, 500g Speer African Grand Slam Tungsten Solid @ 1554fps
9, 76.5%, 0.582�, 460g Cast Performance WFNGC @ 1812fps
8, 87.6%, 0.665�, 350g Speer JFN @ 2147fps
6, 97.4%, 0.800�, 350g North Fork @ 2189fps
6, 70.5%, 0.589�, 300g Speer UCHP

Thanks for all of your considered opinions, I enjoyed reading them greatly.

I still don't know what I'll do.

A part of me, would like to re-barrel a Browning Lever action from .300 Winchester Magnum to a .458 Winchester Magnum. My re-loading books show that it would be a considerably better "stopper" than either a 45-70 or a 450 Marlin, and it would have the advantage of allowing you to carry 300 grainers in another clip, and allow the use of pointed bullets, thus giving a guy a much greater selection of available bullets. A Barnes 600 grainer at around 2000 fps seems pretty intimidating - at both ends!

But then, when my testosterone leaves my brain, and more rationality creeps in - I wonder why I'd ever need more than a 220 grain bullet fired out of a .300 Winchester Magnum anyways? Plus those fast .30 or .325 caliber bullets have a real meaningful trajectory advantage that would probably be more usefull where I hunt - at least 99% of the time anyways.

Thanks again for the ideas.

I am having the same testosterone vs rational thinking conversation with my self. Hawk bullets has a 250 gr round tip bullet they told me would stabilize in my 12 twist .300 Jarrett. There are 275 gr, and Hawk's 300 gr, 338 bullets available too. Stompers, but the 416 and 458 stomp even harder. What to do, what to do? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Once you shoot something out of an actual big-bore with a flat-nosed bullet of 300+gr. you will then know why. Do you want stopping power or not?

2muchgun,

I hear ya' - but I'd doubt it would look any different than watching what 220 grain Noslers or 200 grain Barne's "X's" would do out of my 30-06. Everything I've ever shot with either was dead in it's tracks - with total penetration. I just don't know how you can improve on that - plus shots up to close to 400 yards haven't been too much to ask of that particular combo.
The don't get "deader than dead", and they can't die quicker than "in their tracks". Just my experience so far.

BCBrian

An old /06 is hard to beat ..

I wish i had hung on to my .308 swage die set ..10 deg to a flat point .. But your right dead is dead..

This should be ideal for what you want.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/448288/an/0/page/0#448288

Brian:

I have had a lot of good experience with the Model 95 (.30-06). I've taken pretty much eveything from duiker to eland with it. I consider it to be tough and reliable and, with a good receiver sight, is deadly accurate. It is also fast and well balanced. IMHO a great rifle.

For a really hard hitting gun, I would personally think the Model 95 in 405 Winchester would be an excellent choice. It's a cartridge with a good track record on both sides of the pond. Also, with the high quality bullets available today, it should be even better than is was many years ago when people used it to take the Big Six (I include hippo).

BTW, Z-Hat in Casper, WY has rebarreled a few Model 95s in 375 and 411 Hawk for Ed Stevenson (Sheep River Hunting in Alaska). Ed says in an article (Rifle or Handloader, I can't remember which) that he and his son use the Model 95 exclusively, and as a stopping rifle for bear, he says it cannot be beat.

That said, I think the BLR is an excellent quality rifle too, and with a slightly stronger action than the 95. If you ever cook up your 416 on the Browning action, I will be paying attention!

Garrett ammo has an interesting article comparing the 45-70 to the 458. Surprise...

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.asp

Since I own a BLR .300 WSM I will give my humble opinion. With the right ammo (Garret or Buffalo Bore) the Marlin 45/70 will drill a bear through his skull and come out his a$$. The .300 WSM bullet will break up long before that.

Horses and the 45/70 go together. MV out!

I agree. Most of my centerfire hunting is done with .270 WSM and .308 Win. I love these cartridges and rifles and wouldn't hesitate to use one or the other on anything in North America short of bison and the great bears. But if I needed to stop something with teeth and claws DRT, I'd use one of my big bores. I have a couple 1886's chambered in .45-70, and it's only a matter of time before I pick up a Marlin 1895G. For rapid neutralization of dangerous game, you want big, deep-penetrating bullets, and the ability to make multiple hits very quickly. A big-bore lever gun seems to be the ideal solution to this question. The 1895G is the fastest big bore I've tried, with heavy loads. I would take it over either of my 1886's, actually.

I had the opportunity last summer to fire an 1895G at a firearms class where I wanted to demonstrate the value of a strong stance in recoiling a hard-kicking gun. One of my friends asked if I wanted to use his 1895G, which he had loaded with Garrett Hammerheads, I think the 420 gr loads. I was amazed to find that I could put 4 rounds into the black of a bullseye target at 25 yards in under 3 seconds. The porting, stock design, and recoil pad of this little gun make it very, very controllable. Muzzle rise is almost nil, which is something you need if you're shooting at a charging animal. My friend's rifle was set up with a 1-4X Leuopold, which I think is sensible, but I shoot with both eyes open. If you shoot with your nondominant eye closed, a scope is probably not a good idea for a dangerous game rifle.

IIRC, Phil Shoemaker wrote about the 1895G a few years back as being one of his favorite backup guns when he's guiding sports on coastal brown bears. That's a pretty big endorsement, in my book.

While these guys beat on the tub and dance around the fire, get a Winchester 95 in 405. Any critter within a six week walk of your horse will drop dead if you do your part.
Jim

Careful there Pete, theres a bunch of them here , that think the 405 is just kid stuff. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Always like to see another 95/405 junkie. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Whichever you can shoot the best with.......

Oh, No! You mean I have to go out and buy a horse? And does the little lever under the action on my #1 qualify as a lever action? I mean, the lever activates the thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Kid's stuff, huh? Try one of my 300 gr Barnes X handloads chronied at 2350 -- better yet, give it to one of your kids to try. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I love my guidegun and have owned BLR's in the past. Why put all that money into a rifle that looks like an ugly pregnant guppy when one could have all the power needed in a Marlin Guide Gun??