Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is it possible some folks just can't shoot?

I would throw in that most don't shoot enough to know their length of pull and stock fit.

Thus, they never really get started.

BMT

Hey, I've got one of those! (bayonet off and convertible back to original).



It's a lot of fun plinking with cheap ammo though I wouldn't choose it for hunting.

Shhhhhh...we'll just keep it between us.

You can....I have already told everyone I know!

I think there are two things that people either can, or cannot do regardless of the effort put forth. Shooting, and learning a second language. It's certainly rare, but I think there are some people that simply cannot grasp the concept.


Travis

I believe it is possible

When shooting at game, itty bit groups are worthless. And when shooting at game, perfect is the enemy of good enough. Being able to hit a pie plate at 200 yards quickly and 80 percent of the time is better than being able to hit that pie plate 100 percent of the time if you take too long to do it.

Some people just can't follow directions......

I think there is a lot of this today,particularly when it comes to hunting....way more so than years past.I NEVER see,anymore,guys practice from a sitting position(many don't know what it is),using a sling for anything other than to transport a rifle on their shoulder,shooting off-hand,etc.

The trend is the use of gadgets designed to completely remove the human skill element with a rifle from the equation.....LRF's,bipods,Bog Bod portable benches for the field,several crosshairs to choose from,power range changes(3X can't work at 200 yards)etc....with all this stuff to worry about,conducting the Boston Symphony Orchestra is easier than shooting a deer at 200 yards.....

Don't get me wrong.......there is nothing wrong with using a rest to pull off a shot in the field at a game animal...problem is that for many,the ONLY way they ever shoot is off a bipod or a rest.This style of shooting is so easy that it develops few skill sets at all....They never practice less steady field positions like off hand,dropping to a sit,etc.Take the rest away and many I have seen are completely helpless,even on moderate range shots that should be a snap from an improvised field position.....assuming you know what to do to find one in the first place.

I think part of the problem is the infatuation with tiny groups,and the notion that all big game is going to be killed at very long range.....the amount of discussion and emphasis these topics get on the Internet and in magazines leads many to believe they are doomed to failure if their factory 30/06 does not dump 5 shots into a quarter inch, or they can't stick a bullet into a deer at 700-800 yards......so they gravitate to high power scopes(even when not required),and never leave a bench while searching for the magic load....and then they call this stuff...."practice".

All this is nice but of very little value when the seconds are clicking off and that darned elk at 175 yards is moving from the open to heavy cover....and will be gone forever in about 3 seconds....I don't see many practicing for this type shot.....hell, the groups might be too big!

I can't really consider anyone to be an accomplished field shot on BG unless they have some skill level on moving game.

Plus, the clutter!....Good grief!Bipods to snag on everything,shooting sticks, range finders, variable scopes, wind meters,tiny computers to dial in come-ups and wind drift....again don't get me wrong...the science involved with all of this is intensely interesting.....but all this stuff slows a guy down some times...... at some point,the "art" of rifle shooting should come into play,and that is only obtained through making practice difficult to at least some degree.

Most I see today do not do not EVER do it...

Bob, now you are getting carried away. None of those gadgets can nor do they removed the human element of skill from the equation. Multiple aiming points should pose no problems for the truly skilled to implement perfectly in the field

you must be properly accessorized with the correct clothing complete with pockets and proper loops to organize and transport the necessary electronic hunting and spotting equipment.

jwp: You're missing my point.....

Well its a given, at this time and place most do not shoot no were near enough, time money a place to shoot all come into play. 200 yards is about as long a rifle range you are going to find here in CT or Most of New England , and a Public range is fast becoming non existent. Most of my shots on White tails have been well under a 100 yards here, so the current ranges here are plenty. It dose me no good out west, since there is the idea that you shoot farther or so its what is being said and written that you do. I some times wonder about that, my longest shot ever on a big game animal occurred in Montana with a 270 on a Mule deer near Jordan, It was maybe 300 long steps of mine and I am just 5'6" short legged guy. so it might have been a tad over 200 yards maybe or maybe not. From my journals most of my shots at game been less than that by a good margin. One of the things driving this stuff is laser range finders, they have become very light and very affordable. And All kinds of things you can do with Scope sights these days. It the end its still going to be a lot of trigger time at the range and then some. I like a lighter easier to carry rifle than what some in that game would want like 10+ lbs. The 338 is about all the recoil I would want these days and more and more I question the need since I when back to the 7mm RM in a 7 1/2 lb rifle. And even then, its need is well questionable in the New England Deer woods, where my 7 x 57 and 6.5 x 55 do the job and do it very well with out much recoil. Some times common sense is lacking both in the field and on the internet. One of the best warm ups for Deer hunting I can think of is grey squirrel hunting with a 22 and head shots only. The limit is 40 here is CT and if you can do that with just a box of 50 22's and have a few left over, you are not going to have any sort of problem collecting your deer, with any reasonable rifle that groups 4 inches or better, Ie Model 94's in 30-30. The old timers knew this, since they spent a lot more time shooting small game like rabbits and squirrels for the pot, and for most it was because of need.

Not everyone has the same level of natural ability, and not everyone has the same level of training and experience. Even amongst those who shoot well on paper, some fall apart when faced with the differing pressures of the hunt or of combat. Someone will always outshoot someone else.

Marksmanship is a fleeting skill that requires much disciplined training and trigger time to obtain, and it also requires a continued level of disciplined training and trigger time to maintain. Even if you make it to the top of your game, at some point you will be surpassed by others. There is much more to the overall package of marksmanship than merely the benchrest accuracy of the rifle and ammunition.

When I was shooting National rifle competition, we'd run spring clinics that were used by many to qualify for Garand purchases through the program. When coaching at these clinics, it was easy to spot amongst the varying skill levels those who were former Marines. To be a Marine is to be a rifleman and all the former Marines that ran through these clinics demonstrated a high level of training and experience shooting from field positions. There were other individual stand outs, but none the equal as a group. This gave me the realization that the vast majority of those running through the clinics, without having a disciplined marksmanship background, spent the majority of their years practicing from a bench. Most of these guys were avid hunters yet they spent very little trigger time away from a bench.

I learned a lot during that experience and came away with several benchmarks that I apply to myself. The basics being:

- Always try to keep practice fresh and realistic to the type of hunting pursued. The more realistic your trigger time in practice, the better your performance on game when in the field.

- Spend more time on developing personal skill levels at shooting from field positions than spending on developing bench accuracy of the rifle and ammunition alone. Learning to quickly establish stable field positions in practice will better your performance on game when in the field.

- Push yourself in practice to learn what you cannot do, so you can learn what you can do. Knowing your abilities as well as your limitations through trigger time in practice will better your performance on game when in the field.

Hope someone can take something away from this. Good thread by the way.

Best:)

I think at some point one becomes a good enough shot that he doesn't have to practice much, to be proficient enough to hunt. I think if one gets to a point where he can shoot a 6 inch group off hand at 100 yards and shoot quickly then he is deadly in the hunting field.

Also, I have seen several lever action guns that would shoot a one inch 3 shot group at 100 yards off bench with iron sights, so I dont' find that too amazing. I have a 30-30 trapper of my grandads that will do it almost everytime and I know that a certain gun writter has one of the new trapper 30-30 that will shot an inch with 3 shots and irons.I have seen a few at turkey shoots that would do it pretty consistantly. I have seen a couple of Savage 99s that would shoot and inch with irons and I know of several double rifles that will do the same. I agree it isn't the norm with any production rifle, but their are a number of them that will.

I notice folks that can't shoot, seem to underrate good shooters and don't seem to realize what good shooting is, and judge others by their capabilities..

There is another board I frequent that has a outdoors section. One of the guys there constantly touts magnum rifles and hugmongous scopes for shots on deer at long range. What is long range? He says 300 yards.

He refuses to believe that at those ranges, his rifle has no practical advantage over standard calibers and he basically called me a liar when I said I could hit 12 or 15 inch square paper targets all day, and sometimes get some really decent groups, from iron sighted surplus Mausers at 300 yards from a seated position.

And I don't think I'm that good of a shot, at least not anymore. But shooting at normal hunting ranges is a lot easier than some people make it out to be. Just a little practice will get you where you need to be.

I will take slower and 100% over that 80%. Non-mortal wounding 20% of the animals you shoot at is not a good average.

And you'll never get to shoot at lots of deer because you are too slow. And missing a pie plate 2 out of 10 times from 200 yards does not equate to merely wounding a deer. But of course, fixate on whatever you want and skew whatever you want to "prove" your point.

No point, just a statement, but then again I do not take THS on animals either

That's easy: The guy was selling shooting sticks.

I think some guys here tend to think this or that gadget is "a current trend" just because they see it on the hunting shows. IME, at least in my area and the folks I hang with, guys don't buy all that stuff. A good call and a few deeks and you're a goose hunter. A Savage 110 with a Tasco on top and you're a deer hunter. It's that simple in my neighborhood. Having said that, my wife and I both got each other Primos trigger sticks for Christmas last year, and neither was privy to the other's plan. How's that for irony?