Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats GreyBull Precision?

Well said Bob, it is stupid needless criticism.

Bob, you have always been the voice of reason . Well said

+1. Thank you Bob.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but....

JBurns isn't helping his situation and continues to add fuel to the fire by sniping back and calling people Jackasses.

Unreal.

Guys thanks...but I didn't do anything.....to me it's just a question of a bit of restraint and common courtesy.

I avoid pissing contests when at all possible but I don't like it when people screw with someone else's livelihood.

The market place is the ultimate arbiter of whether goods and services thrive or fall on their face;and the right to criticize is the sole province of those who have laid down their money for either one.

It is sponsors and the profit motive that makes this site available to all of us.

That John should have to defend a product and its' intended use in a public forum to those who have not paid the freight for its' use has ,to me,moved beyond sublime to ridiculous.I wish him the best with his business venture.

Lots of the cost issues vs performance can be compared to AR15s... I can have a CUSTOM built AR15 by a national champ... for 1000 bucks less than say a Wilson built gun. Both will shoot well... and the custom probably will outshoot the wilson by a hair.

What are you getting for value there? IMHO not a damn thing.. yet tons of folks buy Wilson instead.

Looks like by Dink's questioning...someone else bought or is buying into the turrets.... They'll work fine mostly too... but not nearly as versatile.

BTW I've read a lot on the Burns threads all over the place.. one thing I come back to is the gun has to shoot MOA or better... and usually better... but its really generally never hard to take a factory 700 and make it into a sub moa gun... bedding, floating.... recrown, trigger work, and load work generally does it....

Stoney is trying to kiss your azz - he thinks he's getting a free hunt from ya!! He's range is 45 yds & under - he's using one of his RED RYDER custom rifles!!!

rost495 I have always used standard target turrets on my scopes and I need a new scope so I am thinking about buyng one with the CDS. I have always wanted to try a custom turret marked with exact yardages. The farthest I can shoot here is 600 yards and several people on the internet say they work find to about 700 yards and after that you really need the standard turrets. May be the worst idea since the new coke but I think I am going to try them.

Dink

35 pages. Wow.

33 pages of outright b!tching at the man for selling a product that people buy, and maybe two pages of the usual decent discourse the 24hourcampfire is known for.

even money bet that the guys with 10 posts commenting negatively are not even hunters, but "agent provocateurs" from the anti-hunting crowd. Bauer, does this ring a bell?

I've always wanted to use agent provocateurs in a sentence...

Not a problem but they are SO limiting... if you are going 600 and under... thats a decent deal, but it limits you on swapping loads, swapping the scope to different guns etc... And you probably are not dealing with going from 200 feet ASL to over 10 or 12K like I do in the fall, temps go from 100s to 20s and humidity from 100s to 30s.....

IF it was such a great idea, all the manufacturers would only sell dedicated scopes... but can you think... how many different models you'd have to have...

Of course as I've said... I don't feel that long shots are something you need to do in a few seconds, thats personal.. and its never taken but a few seconds to glance at my chart, dial in 12 moa, vs dialing in 600 yards etc...

Grab a set and let us know how they do for you. Going to run VLD Bergers too or a different load?

I"m still working my way towards a 243 AI and a 22/6mm setup for lighter longer work.

Jeff

This could be the worst idea I have ever had (I doubt it though because I have done some dumb chit.. ).

The elevation change does have me bothered a little. I am less than a 1000 feet here and when I hunt in Montana or Wyoming I can be between 3000 and 11,000. I have run the numbers through one of the free ballistic programs and its showing that there is not alot of diffeence in those elevatons (couple of inches) at 600 yards.

I agree that it probaly would not take much more time to just run the turret with MOA but if I don't try it I will never know if it works.

Dink

I got a similar setup to what he sells and all's I do is shoot at a target @ about 600yds, then see where my bullet hits. After that I adjust either up or down and shoot again. If I'm on target I unscrew my turret, set it to 6 and let it go. that way I'm dead on at six and just a little bit off at anything under. Compensates for different elevations/temps. I won't shoot normally over that distance at any "eatin meat" anyway. I also won't try over maybe 500 unless the wind is really calm or I'm 98% sure I'm gonna get a really good shot off.

I liked Best of the West when Mr. Burns was on it. If he can do what he says he can do with his rifles and can teach others to do it too, what's the big deal.
Anybody that wants to spend 6K on a rifle and scope setup has a right to do it if they want to, it's their money by the way.
I don't have a problem with shooting animals at long range.
If shooting an elk at 700 yards is the difference in going home with an elk or going home empty handed, after I've spent several days getting up 2 hours before shooting light, coming in 2 hours after shooting light, enduring freezing temps and mud etc., if you've been there you know what I'm talking about, I'll dang sure shoot at 700 Yds, and won't need the okay from anybody on an internet forum to do it either.
Mr. Burns, I appreciate your sponsorship of the campfire, your good humor in the face of numerous potshots that have been taken at you,and for the life of me, why, if someone doesn't care for a product they have to run it down. Maybe it makes them feel smarter or superior in some way.

Rost495,

My criterion is not 1 MOA groups at 100yds but actually hitting a 1 MOA target at 100yds. There is a huge difference.

You seem to understand that VLD bullets do not put their best foot forward at 100yds and tend to perform better at longer ranges.

You, like almost every other High Power competitor, use different loads for the different ranges. You state that your 90gr JLK is a 1 MOA grouping load yet it performs much better at long range. This is from a mild cartridge in an AR-15. Muzzle pressure is at the most 5000psi and considering the gas bled off to cycle the action is very likely even lower.

The muzzle pressure from one of our .264s is well over 15,000psi and we are shooting a bullet with the same 18 caliber secant ogive and our 100yd performance is better.

What do you think our 600yd performance is like??

When guys get serious about first round hits they tend to stop measuring groups and start counting hits. First round hits kill the game not � groups at 100yds.

John

I totally agree on cold bore first round hits... its why I shot the competition I did.. no sighters allowed. You had to know the gun.

I misread your info on MOA... but I'm aware through a lot of digital/laser training that my part of the formula has VERY little error in it. Doesn't hurt that I've shot for more than a few years, but my error is just under .25 moa of error with a sling and thats irons... my error over my backpack is even less. That makes hitting a 1 moa target a function of gun accuracy basically.

I'd suspect that your 600 yard accuracy for a group would hover at 2 inches and less... my personal goal with a bolt gun is one that shoots around 1.5 inches for 3 shot groups... but an average... you know, more than one group.. more like 10 plus groups. The goal there is that all 3 shots impact the same, and then try it another day and same until I"m confident. Of course having a load that is MOA and hoping to hit an MOA target cold bore every time becomes a really iffy issue.

BTW regardless of others.. I'm well with you on break in... I've tried it both ways and for my meager mind... it sure doesnt' hurt anything... and my fouling has been cut way down.... in a huge hurry once(long dumb story) but lost a tube life wise right before nationals.... new one shot really well but zip time to break in..... that tube fouled its whole life....

And yes I agree on pressure issues.... of course my 223 loads are more like 60K psi basically.. they are not mild loads at all. but there is a difference once going to mags...
Interesting that you have had good luck wiht a 7mm too.... David always said, as did others... once you pass a certain speed point... that the 7mm rounds would throw a flier for no reason here and there. So far with my newest mag.. 7x300.. I've seen the same thing at distance... every now and then.... but I'm off to test some 180 bergers at some point just to see if they fair better.

The ONLY thing that counts in LR shooting at game is the correct cold bore hit. How you get there can vary. As long as you get there I"m good.. like I said... if I"m around 200% sure of any shot... Bang.

Sid, I was in CO once, wind gusting aroud 30+ mph, light snow, a NICE bull elk was charging up a mountain side in and out of timber, he was at a minimum 450 if not 500-550+ yds.

I never fired. My odds with him running, the wind, etc. were not on my side. Later, that same hunt, had one in the timber at 30 yds, yet the area I was in, had an antler restriction that kept me from shooting him. Etc. etc.

I got a mulie, but no elk, yet had a great time.

I don't regret holding fire. Every situation is different, and hunter, but then again I don't 'Pursue' LR sniping of big game as an endpoint either.

But I digress, to each their own.

JB,

Forgot to give you my specs for my P105 that your're giving me:

RH

7mm Mag

Olive stock

Thanks buddy - I'll be looking for it in the next week or so!!

+1
Most people that claim break in is a waist of time dont shoot as much as you rost.


dave

Great point.

Also;
Thanks for the new phrase of the day. I would love to use it, but I have no idea what it means and will forget it if I look it up. But thanks anyway.

C'mon man you are smarter than that, you only have to change the turret cap with each load/elevation temp. Yeah, that probably means 19 different loads isn't a good idea.

The big issue, IMO, is doing math under duress, and making a miss-causing error. This is why the military has used "custom" turrets for over 20 years.