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I am not as learned or well versed as some here but in the story of Noah I see where the beasts came unto Noah; he didn't go out to fetch them so to speak. In two places it mentions them coming unto him. Is it just possible that God only caused those species He selected to go unto the Ark? He said two of every kind that come unto Noah. I didn't see (and maybe I'm wrong) where God said that two of every kind of all animals etc. were to be placed into the Ark, just of those that came to Noah. Just my thoughts.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone Be The Glory!

Nathan,

Back to your original question:



That is true. There was a man-like creature living in the age that I personally believe to be the time from Genesis 1:1 up to the ICE Age (Jeremiah 4: 23-26). Fossilized remains prove the existence of such a creature.

However, this species of man was no different than the animals that he co-existed with at the time. The reason I say this is that when Adam was created, he was made in the image of God...with a spirit, soul and body and since we know we're descendants of Adam, I don't think his apperance was any different than ours.

Darwins efforts to connect the 2 different species of man came up short up to the point of admitting a missing link. The reason its still missing is because it never existed.

Primitive (Neanderthal) Man predates Adam considerably and depending on who you're listening too somewhere from 100,000 to a million yrs. ago.

The timeline from Adam to now is roughly 6,000 yrs. according to Jewish calendars.

Nathan,

The Scripture teaches that death entered the world as a result of Adam's sin. A "Primitive (Neanderthal) Man"'s hand bones were scanned into a computer and compared to a "modern" man's hand. The computer concluded the "Primitive (Neanderthal) Man" was more dexterous than modern man's. Also the crainial capacity for the "Primitive (Neanderthal) Man" is greater than "modern" man's. Some of the graves have been discovered in tact. One of the fellows was wurried in chain mail ammor with iron arrow heads. This is a suggesting they believed in an afterlife.

These folks lived after Noah's Flood. All evidence of the world before the Flood was washed away by the Flood. That Flood is why we find billions of dead things burried in sedimentary rock everywhere in the world.

That is the problem, evidence. Ringman has the ring of truth in his reply here. Many people do believe that God created the world with the APPEARANCE of age, not meaning that there were fossils and such, but just that there were full grown trees, mountains, and all of the other things we could point to and say that it would take so very long to form them, but He literally did do it in 6 days because He told us He did, as has been said before. Another way of viewing this is that He created Adam as a full grown man, not an infant. Without getting into the arguement of whether Adam and Eve had bellybuttons, let's just agree that they were created full grown and with the APPEARANCE of age. But I dare say that they didn't have any scars to simulate age. Wouldn't you think fossils could be considered scars in the earth? I think it safe to say that there were no fossils until after the 6th day, but that they started forming soon after that. Certainly most of what we see today from the fossil record COULD have come from the Flood, but we have scant evidense either way.

It has been shown that fossils can form in only a matter of a few (less than 100) years. The same with flow rock, stalagtites and stalagmites in caves. Dr. Morris of the Creation Science Intitute has many examples of the problems with carbon dating. Basically, it makes an assumption about the ratio of carbon 14 in the atmosphere, a ratio that many believe did not, and could not have remained constant if the Flood removed the canopy of water vapor. (Film at 11:00) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There are so many things that seem to point to a young earth. Many people have tried to poke holes through some or all of them, but I have looked at the arguments against a young earth and just can't see the logic in many of them. The deltas of rivers is one. The amount of helium (decay process of ratiation) is another, and as I said, so many others. You can check out http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth/specific_arguments/index.shtml
yourself and see what you think, but I have to tell you that Dave Matson's first argument just doesn't hold water with me. The truth is that if there is one undeniable proof for a young earth it does disprove an old earth. Please check out Dr. Hovind's arguments yourself at http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp and make up your own mind. Just don't think you have to be in a hurry to decide what you think.

In the end, creation, whether by special creation or evolution, must be considered by faith. This is especially true now that we find out the latest theory is that there really wasn't a Big Bang, just a colision of the membranes of the alternate universes from parallel dimensions. I guess this is serious science now, but wasn't it just a couple of years ago that we were being told that no true scientist would believe anything but that the cosmos began as a cosmic egg that for some reason suddenly exploded into the expanding universe via the Big Bang? My, the times, they are a changin'. Or now I guess it is, the times, times, times they are, were, will be a changin', unless they don't.

The Gap theory has been looked at long and hard. The idea being that since the Bible states that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (period) and stops, plus later says in Isaiah 45:18 that God did not create the earth tohu (void and without form) but Genisis 1:2 says that the earth was void and without form that something must have happened between them. The word translated in the King James is correct. Tuhu can also mean vain, and does here in Isaiah, but does mean void and without form in Genesis. Some people have inserted all of evolution between verse one and two. This is unfortunate.

When the whole Word of God is used and put in context the idea of a Gap theory doesn't look real possible. People are free to believe it, but there isn't a shred of evidense for it any where, and that includes the idea that there was some kind of metalic or chemical life world that Lucifer ruled before the fall that some see in Ezekiel 28. Suffice it to say that Genesis 1:1 is a general description and then the rest of chapters one through three go into a specific in depth description of creation.

As I said, people are free to believe it and I don't see a serious heresy in it at any rate, but we have enough work just getting the gospel out to people who are dieing and going to hell. I don't see "Go ye out and teach evolutionary creationism" in the Great Commision. I do see an importance placed on God's word (KJB, not KJV- it isn't a version).

Sanlen,

I agree with you on a number of points. I like what you said about the KJB being a Bible, not a version. Amen!

I also agree that our lost world needs the gospel, first and formost. Amen! And you are right - the great commission does not give a command to teach evolutionary creationism.

As a preacher, I am commanded to teach and preach the whole counsel of God. I am not called to teach evolution or creation from a scientific approach. I am commanded to teach the Bible.

The gap isn't a theory, it is a principle. I have done a study on different gaps in the Bible, and believe me, there are several. Gaps ar enot strange things to God. The Bible is full of them.

a.) The gap between eating the fruit of the tree and the physical death. -- about 900 years give or take.

b.) Isaiah 9:6 -- the gap between the child being born and the son being given. -- about 33 years give or take.

c.) Isaiah 9:6 -- the gap between the son being given and the government resting on his shoulders. -- about 2,000 years give or take.

d.) Isaiah 9:6 -- the gap between the government resting on his shoulders and the white throne judgment -- about 1,000 years give or take.

e.) 2 Tim 4:1 -- the gap between the appearing and the second coming. -- about 7 years give or take.

f.) The gap of the times of the Gentiles - Luke 21:24 -- from 606 BC - Nebuchadnezzar till any time now -- 2,600 years give or take.

g.) The huge gap between a man's brain and his heart -- about 18" give or take -- but the real difference can be eternity in a Lake of Fire.

h.) The gap between the first coming and the second coming -- unknown to the folks in the Old Testament -- 2,000 years give or take.


There are others, but that gives a smattering. God is a God that deals with gaps. He is familiar with them. He uses them. I do not believe in any form of evolution. Evolution shows something improving. Mankind has gone downhill at breakneck speed since the fall in the garden. I call this "devil-ution.

The gap that I am looking to see the end to is from the day of my birth to the blessed hope (Titus 2:13). Until then, I will serve my Lord. I will "not shun to declare unto you all the counsel of God." (Acts 20:27)

I have been preaching and teaching full time for over 10 years, and have taught the Gap Principle twice. Once at home -- two one hour lessons. Once to a bunch of Philipino Pastors in the Philippines at a Bible conference - about 5 hours of teaching - showing the seven states of the planet in the Universe from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. I followed this up with an hour lmessage on "Standing in the Gap" from Ezekiel 22:30.

There is no doubt there is a gap between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. Not something to argue over. The real Gap is between Heaven and Hell. Jesus Christ bridged that great gulf. He is the one mediator. (1 Tim 2:5)

God is looking for someone to stand in the gap for him for this world. Will you be that man? Just one man standing in the gap for God can make all the difference. That verse put me in the ministry. What does it do for some of you?

You don't need to get into a preaching job -- Just preach to the people you work with. Preach to the people you live with. Preach to the people you come in contact with.

Stand in the Gap!

the_shootist,

How is it you tell us the Scripture doesn't tell us to preach about scientic creation but you go out and preach a lie about some gap in Genesis One. Give us a break.

Go back and read where God wrote with His Own finger on the stones He gave Moses that He created Heaven and earth and the sea and everything in them is six days. It is in Exodus 20:11. Psalms 11 teaches if the foundations are destroyed, where do the righteous stand. You start right in the Beginnig of God's Word with a lie to destroy the Truth.

Ringman,

I have given you a break before, and I am currently giving you another break. I will not answer your empty charges. I DO NOT believe in evolution. I believe that God made it all. He did not make the earth in its present form in Genesis 1:3 and on. It has been changed. We get rain, now. He did not make man in Genesis 1 the way he is made now.

Man now is corrupt, and has lost the image of God. He made it a new work on the potter's wheel. Amen! I'm a new lump. I'm still a lump, but I am a new lump. I am "renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him." (Col 3:10)

I know that the Lord made the earth of Gen 1:3 and on in six literal 24 hour days. I believe that! I think it didn't take him all day to make light on day one. I think he spoke light into existence in about 2 seconds, and then sat back and enjoyed it for the other 23 hours, 59 minutes and 58 seconds. I think he said, "Now THAT is good."

I have NO problem with the Genesis account of the creation of the earth. I also understand Psalm 11 - it says what shall the righteous DO -- not where shall they stand. The foundation is the pure, innerant, infallible, preserved word of God. It is also the foundation of Jesus Christ. I understand that. I DO NOT destroy the foundation -- I exalt them! Both the written word and the Incarnate Word.

Maybe God is playing a little game with you. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Or maybe there needs to be a creed written by a catholic that dispells all the things about evolution. Go shake someone else's foundation. Mine is on the solid Rock.

Maybe you need to go back and read where the finger of God wrote on tables of stone. It was in Exodus 31:18, not Exodus 20:11

There is more than one flood in the Bible - there is the one in Genesis 7 and 8. That is Noah's flood. There is also a flood in Genesis 1. These two are explained in 2 Peter 3. There is an earth that was of old, and the earth that now is. There is an earth that was standing in the water and out of the water, and there is an earth that was overflowed by water. Noah's world was overflowed by water. The earth "of old" was standing in the water and out of the water. Then God pulled the waters away, and made the earth in Genesis 1:3

I wouldn't expect you to get it. You are still trying to get God to play a game with you.

There are other people that know way more than I do that have way more information on this. I will not take up any more space arguing with you on the thing. Get Clarence Larkin's book on Dispensational Truth. Get C.I. Scofield's book on Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth. Get Dr. Peter Ruckman's commentary on the book of Genesis. Get a mitt and get in "THE GAME."

the_shootist,

What evidence in the earth do you use to suppoort your belief in a flood before Noah's Flood?

You're saying that Adam was a Neanderthal?

Adam was made in God's image. By your response what does that say about God?

Genesis 1:2 -- darkness was on the face of the deep. The deep now separates the Throne of God from the rest of the Universe. That happened when God took the waters above and the waters below and gathered them into one place. That was the water that the Earth stood in and out of. That was the earth of Gen 1:2. In the future, there will be no more sea - Rev 21.

2 Peter 3:4-7 -- it says "from the beginning of the creation." and then follows with a world overflowed by water -- that is the flood of Noah.

In Genesis 1, God blesses man and tells him to be fruitful and multiply and REplenish the earth. He also blesses Noah and his sons and tells them to be fruitful and multiply and REplenish the earth. I know all the arguments about it means "FILL," and I don't buy it. In Gen 1:22 he blesses the whales and the fish and the fowls and tells them to fruitful and multiply and FILL the waters of the seas.

God knows the difference between FILL and REFILL. There were NO birds and fish and whales on the earth prior to Gen 1:22, but there was something "humanoid" on the earth -- NOT Austrolapithicus or Neandrethal or Piltdown. Fallen Angels.

Psalm 82:5 -- I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are the children of the most high, but ye shall die like men.

There is way too much to put on this board. Get the books I told you about and check them out.

I know you wanted evidence on the earth. The BIBLE is on the earth. I could care less about fossil records. They are deceiving at best. Once in a long, long while, science catches up to the Bible, but not very often. That's why Paul told Timothy to avoid oppositions of science falsely so called. (1 Tim 6:20)

Anyway, I'm done with you. You are looking for ammunition to load your gun. I will not provide any more bullets for you. I love you as a brother in the Lord, but I won't argue the point anymore. It ain't worth it. I have way too much work to do for the Lord to trifle here about this.

Church services call. I'm preaching tonight on Open Rebuke is Better Than Secret Love. Come on up and get a helping!

Hi all. I was away for the weekend. I was just reading over what I missed. Have you guys made any progess in this discussion?

Hmmm.... Sounded to me like he was saying that what scientists called neanderthal was actually a human being, not that Adam was neanderthal. Don't you think it puts God in a bad light to say that He did all this other stuff that's not included in the Bible? Think about it. Over and over again God says that His word is true. And if we believe that the Bible is the ultimate truth, why do we bring our own theories and preconceived ideas (and those of todays so called "scientists", many of whom are NOT christians) to the Bible and try to conform the Bible to our ideas? When instead, we should come to the word of God without all of our preconceived ideas and base our decisions and what we believe on God's Word.

Well... I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I think yourve wrong about that. This is the Strongs definition of REPLENISH:

( Hebrew word )04390 alm male� maw-lay� or alm mala� (#Es 7:5) maw-law�

a primitive root; TWOT-1195; v

( Words it is translated into )AV-fill 107, full 48, fulfil 28, consecrate 15, accomplish 7, replenish 7, wholly 6, set 6, expired 3, fully 2, gather 2, overflow 2, satisfy 2, misc 14; 249

( Defenitions )
1) to fill, be full
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be full
1a1a) fulness, abundance (participle)
1a1b) to be full, be accomplished, be ended
1a2) to consecrate, fill the hand
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be filled, be armed, be satisfied
1b2) to be accomplished, be ended
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to fill
1c2) to satisfy
1c3) to fulfil, accomplish, complete
1c4) to confirm
1d) (Pual) to be filled
1e) (Hithpael) to mass themselves against

I hope this helps. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> At least now you can see where I stand and why.

Reproduction, by the way, takes place with people or animals who are already in existence (obviously <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ), so it's kinda' like the principle that "information comes from information". In other words, you can't have something from nothing; which is one of the reasons why evolution is impossible. (just a side thought)

I'm wondering why "fundamentalists" (self proclaimed) are so horned up on this VERSION of the Bible? Is their something I am missing, or do you all just like to feel special?

Why don't you start and thread and explain??

M B,

I am not a fundamentalist. I am not a mentalist of any kind. I am a dumb ole country boy. Never been to Bible School a day in my life. Just too stupid to correct God, that's all. I am a Bible Believer. A real simple one.

Every "version" of the Bible other than KJB is a weaker Bible. It is not an improvement on anything. But that is not really on point with this thread.

My brain is tired. Preaching the word is work. I'm off to relax.

Shootist,

Not trying to nit-pick, but I see a few errors in your post.



Dude.... You honestly can't say this.. God dealt with his covenant people the Israelites until the missionary journeys of Paul. Do you mean to say the the world was better then than now? No way. The ministry of the Holy Spirit and the expanding Church of Christ is evident, and the Chruch is gaining strength as Christ gathers his elect... Do your history, the world has always sucked, even to the point God destroyed it with a flood. The history of humans is ugly, and they didn't even have the news to show it...



Didn't Christ do that? I find the "stand in the gap" stuff to be false. The kingdom of God is not dependant on men.......

I've preached two sermons and taught adult sunday school today.. I know your pain.

But, you must expain why the KJV is superior............

inhissteps,

How about REpent? Are we going to pent again? And REjoice. We didn't joice correctly the first time? Is the word REspond used in the KJV? If so how does one spond?

God sends a tricky influence on those who wish to believ a lie.