Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 444 or 1895

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well.....the temptation was just more than I could stand. I new reading this was gonna cost me, and it did.

Good for you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So, which one of the big bores did you buy, the suspence is getting to us... .

--Ken

I got what I felt to be a fair deal on a 444ss. By the serial it shows to be a '79 model and I'd conservatively call it to be in 90-93% condition. I bought some ammo for it last night and will hopefully cut loose on something with it in the next day or two. I wasn't looking for a checkered stock but this has one, not sure if it's original equipment. Any ideas on that? Of course it is way pre-safety which is what I wanted for sure. It's very clean and tight. It was well represented by powderburn from here on 24hr and who happens to live within an hour's drive. Btw powderburn, if you happen across this, thanks again.

I plan to use up a bunch of Hornady 265s in it that I have from when I tried them out in my 44mag handgun. Either of the 4198s going to work good for that? I don't keep any powder around that the books call for in this so I'm wide open to suggestions. Will try to load up a picture.

Congrats on your purchase of a '79 444 Marlin, mine is a '76 Marlin 444s, I too am glad not to have a CBS to be an irritation. I use IMR 4198 in my .444 pushing 265gr Hornady's, that should work for you too. You can start at about 42gr & increase from there, mine are cooking on 44.5gr IMR 4198 & a Federal Magnum primer.
--Ken <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Heh, heh, heh, heh,

Now that we have you ....

I have a 1976 444s as well. You've mentioned the 265 grain loads, but this gun shines with cast gas checked bullets up to around the 350 grain weight. Reloader #7 and either 335 powders work very well for these. I use RE7 pretty extensively.

It's time, muleshoe. Time for you to leave behind the childish world of 'puny' handgun cartridges such as the 44 magnum and transition into the mystical world of reloading big bore straight walled rifle cartridges......

Behold the world of possibilities that are open to you

Coyotes
pig
deer
muley (not mules, they don't like it when you shoot them)
elf (er,... I mean elk)
black bear
moose
Freight train.

(And vunce you are suitably indoctinated, you vill check out zee BFR in 444 Marlin as vell....)

Unfortunately, I had to list my 444 in the classifieds today. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
There's also the Leupold 2.5 IER scout scope there too.

I'm stuffing 49.0 gr of V N-120 in Hornady's 444 Marlin cases and capping it with their 265 grainer; plugging the bung hole with Rem 9 1/2 primers.

This is an a very accurate, fast load and is safe in my 444s- 2003 model. The velocity is at 2425 fps/3460 ft/lbs energy. Figuring a 6" vital zone, point blank range is 215 yds.

Oh yeah, someone above was deriding the BLR 358- calling it a piece of (expletive deleted). Well, I love my piece of (expletive deleted) BLR 358. The piece of (expletive deleted) handles so well and shoots so accurately. I hope Browning continues to make these pieces of (expletive deleted) and chamber the 358.

mad ox

What ever happened to do not exceed the charge or velocity of a published load?

I would say he is right on the money for a max load "without" pressures.Under in powder charge and only 10 fps over.


Jayco

So if "only" 10 fps over is OK, why not go 20 or 30 or even 50 fps over?

How many Chrono's read the same and just what exactly is the pressure, is that "so called max" load?Is it one of those "These loads do not exceed" 44,000 CUP and are from 40-42,000 CUP in actual pressure.?

10 fps and under in powder charge.You could well be off that much adapting Hodgdons data from a 24 inch barrel to a 22 inch barrel or a 400 Speer to a 405 Remington.If I was concerned enough about my load and 10 fps <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />I would e-mail Vihtavuori powder and ask them the risk I run at 10 fps faster than there published max load in my production Marlin.

Jayco

So where do you stop? Why not take the load to 50 grains, the maximum published charge, who cares if it exceeds the published velocity by 40 fps? 10 fps can't hurt, so 40 fps can't be that bad, right?

Before I adapted the Hodgdon #27 400 grain Speer FN 45-70 load to the Remington 405 grain JSP I worked up a load in my rifle with the specified components. I then did not exceed either the charge or velocity of that load when using the substituted bullet.

The maxim is "do not exceed either the charge or velocity of a published load." So is it OK to fudge a little? Or is it prudent to always follow that maxim with the components, equipment and procedures one is working with? If the former is OK, then where does the fudge stop?

Jackfish Wrote:

Just how did you come up with the correct velocity when the data you used was done in a 24 inch barrel and your rifle is a 22 inch one?Was this load first checked in a 24 inch barrel then shot in your 22 inch barrel to get the "Correct Velocity" and how much did the velocity vary from the 400 Speer to the Remington 405 when each was first shot in the 24 inch barrel then your rifle?

Geez Jackfish-How can you guess from a 24-22 inch barrel and be exactly the same as it would be tested?A load like above that is 10 fps over with the powder charge under.is a safe load.I checked Hodgdons and there highest "Max" load for the .444 Marlin is 43,100 CUP with a velocity of 2146 fps for a 275 grain Barnes.Would 10 fps put him over 44,000 CUP? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
And don't forget,these are averages.You have to go over 44,000 CUP and under to get a average of 44,000 CUP as a max charge.
Jayco

Available data and observation led me to a comfort level in adapting loads developed in a 24" barrel to my 22" barrel. I agree that 10 fps could be negligible, but I must point out that it could be enough to cause a problem with long-term use. My contention is why risk a problem if one can reduce a load to come in line with the parameters of the published load. It certainly is not going to hurt anything to do that when on the other hand exceeding the velocity of a published load, even by 10 fps, could be a problem. If as you contend one can risk 10 fps, why not more? What would be the threshold? If you violate established procedure for 10 fps, why not 20 fps? Or is 10 fps over always "good to go"?

So why did Hodgdon stop at the charge that produced 43,100 CUP? It is most likely because any additional increase in charge put the maximum average pressure above 44,000 CUP. So, yes it is entirely possible that exceeding the published velocity even by 10 fps could put one over 44,000 CUP. So when one develops loads is it OK to exceed the published charge or velocity? And if 10 fps is OK, why not 20, 30 or even 50 fps?

And what exactly is the benefit in the field when pushing a 265 grain load at 2400 fps plus as opposed to say 2300 fps?

My opinion is that Jackfish makes perfect sense. Prolonged use of max loadings that bump up against the allowables only decrease the life of a firearm and its safe use. In the end, you gain nothing in noticeble power and surely nothing in trajectory.

IMO, it just doesn't make any real sense when using a tube feed lever gun. Your PBR will be unchanged with the same projectile at 2300 fps.

I have a 1895ss 45-70, I shoot buffalo bore 350gr.ammo in it
Its all the gun I can handle and some.
My hunting buddy shot a doe with it,it was impressive to say the least!!!

257 Roberts,

It is impressive when you hit game with these BB lever guns. The commercially available Buffalo Bore and CorBon ammo really takes the 444 Marlin and 45-70 to new levels of power for the nonhandloader.

I have handloaded the Nosler 250 Partitions in 444 Marlin for years and used them on many whitetails and they simply take them down clean and dead. Everytime I point that 444 Marlin at something in the field and pull the trigger, I know that animal is going down.

I was very impressed with the CorBon 280 grain bonded soft expander load. Couple years back I took a big bodied Colorado 4x4 elk at 125 yards with that load. It knocked that bull to the ground and killed him as quick as anything I have ever used on elk and this would include my 338 Win.

Take Care,
rossi