Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is their a PRACTICAL difference between 30-06 and 35 Whelen?

I have lurked on this site for a long time I appreicate the experience on this site. Most of what I read about the 35 whelen from owners is about theoretical attributes of the cartridge such as "makes a bigger hole", "will kill any animal in North America" "Kills out of proportion to paper ballistics" etc., etc.

I know all the above statements to be factual (except maybe kill out of proportion to paper ballistics) so I am not judging anyone. However, is the diffence in the mind or is there a real diffence in the field? I have lived and hunted Alaska for over 25 years and ,frankly, if I lived in the lower 48 probably would not even look at the 35 whelen. I have seen a lot of deer and moose killed with a 30-06s and 300 magnums and not seen any problems -mostley with 180 grain Nosler Partions. I have friends who have killed everthing in Alaska (except buffaloe) with 180 grain core-lokts including 9'+ brown bears and are not afraid of anything as long they have a 30-06 in hand. But they have not killed a lot of brown bears. They do however have the confidence in their eqipment that I only wish I had.

I have killed most of my game with a 338 Winchester model 70 stainless steel classic. I have made some impressive kills with this rifle (and some not so impressive) I also hunt the islands in Prince William Sound for Blacktail deer.

While deer hunting on the islands I have had more than one chance incounter with brownbears. I had to kill a Sow (DLP)with two full grown cubs back in 2001 (about 10' off the muzzle) with a lucky shot plus an insurance shot (338). After killing the mother the two cubs were so quick trying to skirt us in the small clearing. It was a hair raising experience. It all happened in a matter of seconds. I only had one more round left in my rifle and wished I had more, hence the above question about 30-06 vs. 35 whelen (MAGAZINE CAPACITY. I was lucky I had a partner to back me up. We fortunaley did not have to shoot the cubs.

I have since went back to mostly using my 30-06s with 180 grain bullets for most of my hunting and more recently a 35 whelen with 250 grain bullets (again MAGAZINE CAPACITY).

I personnlaly have only killed deer with my 30-06s. I have not killed anything with my 35 whelen. Both rifles hold 5 rounds (something that is important to me. However I still like my 30-06s for portablitly and lighter weight- and I tend to shoot them much more.

My whelen (98 mauser with a fairly heavy 22" barrel) weighs almost 10 lbs with 5 rounds in the magazine and 6 on the butstock. It is a rifle I think will spend more time on my shoulder using a sling than in my hands. So I guess my question is more about rifle weight, magazine capacity, killing power. Sorry for the long post. Now you can see why I mostly lurk. Thanks for any input.

If given the choice of having to bust something that is about to eat me I'd run a Whelen. That said I've not carried one in brown bear country, I always had a 30/06 in my hands when around them big bastards.

I'd not want to lug around 10 pounds of Whelen and I'm also not one to run a sling on a rifle.

This Whelen only holds 4 rounds down, but I'd not want to be a thing. I've not seen a black bear take a step after getting a 250gr Partition, but black bears have been the biggest thing it's seen.

7 pounds 4 ounces with 4 rounds in the magazine, 19 1/2" barrel

Fisrt, I love the Whelen--its old and cool.

But the Whelen won't do anything the 338 mag won't do.

But it might recoil less that the 338.

Our local Griz Expert (Phil Shoemaker) thinks the Whelen is fine for Griz--So I stopped worrying about it.

BMT

PS. Steelhead has the coolest rifles with the craziest color schemes.

BMT

........................Great round in a very good handier rifle w/ a 19.5" barrel and shorter OAL, along with a nice low powered scope. Just about as perfect a brush and timber bear/elk rifle as one could have.

BUT THE COLOR OF THAT STOCK?.............IMHO,,,,,YUK!

Thanks for the quick replies. Steelhead, I like the weight of your rifle. It weights about 1/2 lb less than my model 70 30-06 stainless steel classic F/W that I tend to favor when deer hunting in Brown bear country.

Your rifle looks like a model 700 Remington? It will also hold 5 total (4 + 1)? Did you do any modifications besides chopping the barrel and restocking?

BMT: I like the 338 except for a few very minor areas: Namely: 26" barrel is too long, rifle weighs in neigborhood of 10 lbs when outfitted with 9 cartriges (3 in mag and 6 on stock) and low magazine capacity. When I had my chance bear incounter in 2001 I was lucky: #1I had rifle in hand (trying to jump shoot deer in lousy weather (bad mistake), #2 saw the sow just before she saw me -giving me time to flip my safety and scope caps off. Otherwise the situation would have favored her.

A month later that year an Anchorage hunter was badly mauled about a mile away from where we were (Hinchinbrook Island): again, windy conditions walking into the wind. But in this case the bear saw him before he saw it and hit him from the side. I learned a lot: anytime you hunt or even fish in very windy conditons the bears may not hear you coming. They will not spot movement as easily since everything around them is moving, and they will not smell you if you are using the wind to your favor.

There was a 3 position safety added because the other style just drove my gunsmith nuts. I'd not have that done again.

Of course it will hold 1 in the spout with 4 down but if I'm moving I don't have one up the spout.

Mathew,
I personally like the medium bores ... they just feel 'better' to me. Yesterday I was chatting with a friend that hunts Sambar deer with hounds ... shots are generally taken as presented, often with the deer being on the move. The 35Whelen (250gr), 338WinMag (250gr) and even the smaller 358Win (225gr) are all head and shoulders above the 30/06 (180 and 220gr) ... and even seem to out-do the 300Mags (220gr). This comes from a few years experience, hunting every weekend from about May to October. Stationary animals, relaxed and unknowing of the hunters locations are easily handled with any legal chambering and we have a 270cal, 2" case length, 130gr bullet weight minimum ... so effectively a 270Win is our minimum. But once the adrenaline is running and shots must be taken as presented, broadside, raking, frontal, heading up or down ... a significant difference does make itself apparent. This has been noted over considerable time. Prior to 1996 when semi-auto were legal in Australia, a semi in 308Win and multiple shots was deemed fine, post the ban, with slower cycling actions ... the medium bores have made a come back.
Cheers...
Con

Who says you have to have a 26" barrel? I am running a 23" on mine and there are a couple at least here on the 'Fire that run a 22" on their .338 Win's.

If you take the cartridge carrier off the butt and cut the barrel back a few inches, it is quite a handy rifle and balances well. Cut a plastic cartridge carrier (the kind that come in 20 round factory boxes) down to about five or six rounds and keep it in one of your pockets.

I wouldn't consider low magazine capacity as a deterent for avoiding a rifle .338. First, you are only talking about 1 cartridge difference between the standard (.473) and the belted mags. Not to mention that plenty more people hunt bears or tote a .375 in bear country. A .375 in a typical sporter still runs a 3 + 1 capacity.

Looks like it would be a great rifle for tiger hunting.

Con, I own most of the calibers you listed: 338, 358, 30-06, (No 300 win). I also hunt mostly under the conditions you mentioned -shots taken as presented. About half the time there is little time for perfect presention. Most of my hunting is aggressive. I have never had a problem with deer and the 30-06 using 180 grain partions --ussualy quartering away shots - but have passed up on moose going away from a long distance at a slight angle (I may have passed up the same shot with my 338). I have thought of getting a lighter weight 35 whelen, maybe a Ruger 77 in Stainless Steel or Remington 700.

War Eagle, I chorograph all my loads and the fastest velocity it get with accuracy is around 2650 fps using the 26" barrel. This is the longest range rifle I own and will only use 250 grain bullets since bear country is all I hunt in. I have read of a lot of people getting those kind of velocities in shorter barrels. I myself am a little skeptical in my own case I very seldom get published velocities. I try a lot of powders and also try to minimize the kinds of powers i have on hand. Powders that will transfer to differnt calibers usually in 8 lb lots (mostly IMR 4350/H-414 for 30-06 and 338 winchester, IMR 3031 and 4064 for 358 winchester, 35 whelen and 458 Winchester. During experimentation Phase I also have many other rifle powders on hand (some newer) but those listed are the ones I always go back to.

About keeping shell holder my pocket: I am usually shedding/adding clothing as my hike goes on. It is a constant thing. Transfering shells from pocket to pocket is kind of a pain. Keeping 9-11 shells on the rifle make them always available. I would almost feel naked with just 3 cartridges in my rifle and then have to dig in a jacket or backpack for the rest, if needed. I know I may sound like a lousy shot. I do not believe in self praise but will say this: I have a free rifle range at my disposal and shoot a lot from field positions and do a lot of dry fireing on my main rifles. In all my hunting I did lose a black bear once using 338 at ~200yds while he was moving (my fault).

A lot of people tote a 375s. I think the cartridge itself is one of the best as is the 338. They are just heavy rifles. Most of the time I am fairly close to my hunting partner. Magazine capacity should not be an issue. But, there are times we split up. Something that is fast handling yets fairly powerful give me a little better comfort.

I don't know anything about the 35 Whelen except that I am impressed by the stock color and rifle that Steelhead owns. That seems about perfect! I did contact Remington last month and asked them what the weight was on their 375 H&H XCR. The tech told me it was 75/8 pounds. That may be relevant information to you. Me I keep wanting a larger bore rifle but cannot justify one!

Steelhead what twist did you run in your barrel?

I went with the .35Whelen after shooting it side by side with a .338win mag. The mag just seemed to cause a whole lot more fuss for the same results. I also like the fact I can get 5 in the mag (semi custom dropped floorplate on a Ruger 77). Years ago when shooting a lot of pigs at night it was not uncommon to empty the gun and have 5 pigs stacked up and it was nice they were not spread all over the place, most dropped where they were hit or no more than 5-10yards.

Varmintsic,

I appreicate your comments. What kind of bullets are you using in your 35 whelen?

Do you think you could have accomplished the same results i.e faster knockdown, etc. with say a 30-06?

Sometimes I think the 30-06 gets a bad rap because so many are floating around. I have seen a lot of hunters including guys I hunt with will only run maybe a max of 20 round a year for sight in and call it good. But overall the guys I hunt with seem to be pretty good shots in spite of their lack of practice.

It's a factory tube, 1-16"

I have a 35 whelen and run 200gr bullets for deer and elk.
Anything else gets a 225-250gr bullet.It does seem to hit real hard out to 300 yards.

About 45 grains of lead?

And if your a remy man a really slow - almost in effective twist rate...

DOH

I find it hard to believe that the Whelen offers anything more than the Springfield.

Load the 30-06 with 200/220 Partition, or 220 Woodleigh, or 200 Accubond, or some other big bullet, and it ought to open up and penetrate just as well as the Whelen. In fact, it probably will penetrate deeper.

Mostly, it sounds like you want a gun that fits well and carries better, so I'd be looking around for those attributes first before obsessing over chamberings.

Here goes the boring twist rate yarn. Funny how so many folks who never owned a Whelen need a fast twist.....