Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is their a PRACTICAL difference between 30-06 and 35 Whelen?

Yeah, everytime this topic surfaces I remind myself that my Ruger M-77RS (tang safety 1988/89) can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle when 250 gr. bullets go down range.
And I am always amazed when it shoots 1-1.5inch groups and big stuff falls over dead with one shot.

Not exactly on the subject but if I were looking to hunt deer in that brown bear country,a rifle/cartridge combo I would look real hard at is one of these new Ruger Hawkeyes in 338 RCM(?).

I handled one the other day and it is relatively light,compact,nicely balanced and seems very fast handling. I don't know much about the cartridge except that some have said it is a shorter 338/06.

In that little package, I think a guy could handle the long shots at deer while still having enough bullet to feel comfy around those big bruins,all in a very portable,sweet handling rig. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Can't really answer as I have never shot anything with a 30-06, though I do own a nice old FN and a couple of rechambered '09 Argentine's. Mainly, 'cuz I shoot Whelen's. So, a Whelen it would be and it would be this tweaked factory Ruger of mine. It goes 7# 12oz filled with 4 of the 225 gr TSX loads I use, a lean 22" barrel with sights and sling barrel band, Leupy rings and the 2-7X VX-II all wrapped in a Basner stock. Moose, elk, black bear and Nilgai have rather smartly been whacked.

don't we go round and round about this! 358win vs 308 etc. etc. I still "need" a larger caliber for some reason or another, and plan to get one despite admitting that I am planning to expend even more energy on the far side dirt of the intended 150 pound 4 legged target.

Nice rig!
whelennut

Matthew,
I don't think that the .35 caliber bullet making a larger hole than a .308 bullet is in any way theoretical?
I think either rifle cartridge would, and has, killed any North American game animal.
What I like is that I can shove a 225 gr. Partition at 2681 fps out of a 22" barreled 35 Whelen. I cannot do that with a 30-06!
It is a little like trying to decide between a six cylinder engine in a pickup truck and a V-8 engine.
Tissue disruption and wound channel favors the bigger bore size IMHO. A letter from Bob Hagel validates my belief.
Think of the 30-06 as a military cartridge and the 35 Whelen as a hunting cartridge. It works for me!
whelennut

.050

There's no doubt that for a given SD and fps, a .35 will inflict a larger wound than a .30 bullet. Whether that's enough to be significant is the question. I doubt stepping up from a .30 to a .35 will be a night and day difference. On the other hand, if you're currently shooting a 6.5 and are looking to step up, I doubt the .30 is a useful step; go straight to the .35 or even .40 instead. In other words, whether the .35 will prove useful to you will depend on what you currently shoot.

First off, I have no experience in bear country. Having said that, I believe the Whelen's greatest advantage exists in the most dangerous and confusing place on earth. Right between my ears. When hunting elk with a .350 Rem Mag I know in my heart that I am better armed than a guy with an '06. Will be the same when I take a new 35 Whelen for the same task. Ballistic twins and all that. The increase in confidence, real or perceived, might be worth something. My aim may be steadier, I may not be as quick to second guess an opportunity or I may feel better about being different than the guys hunting with a much more common '06. Sure, it's a trick of a feeble mind, but what the heck, it works.

My head knows different. What ever advantage there MAY be when using a bullet of .05" larger diameter is negated by using a premium bullet that performs as perfectly as possibly every time. The increase in bullet diameter simultaneously increased my gun count by one. Then two. That may be the only truly practical advantage.

That is a nice rig!. I have a similar one. Stock is a B&C. I'm moumting a Leupold M8 4X on it though I much prefer the open sights. My eyes seem to be aging so I felt a classic scope was a fair compromise. Trigger breaks very crisply at 3 lbs even.
It is my "never give it up" rifle. Over the years, it has proven itself many times. 35 Whelen gets my vote.

Matthew,
I will dare say I have never owned a 30-06 so I cannot say its better. I shot a lot of pigs with a .308 and .270 using 165 interlocks and 140 interlocks and for the most part never had a problem with properly placed slugs but there were times when a well hit pig would bounce up and take off running into the brush to be recovered later, running from 50-100yards after the first shot. As related in another post an early production 150gr Ballistic tip was the only true failure I have seen, it only penetrated 4" and stopped. However they just seem to be hit harder using the 250gr Speer or the 250 Hornady. I cannot recall a properly hit pig going more than a few feet and never had one run anywhere near 50 yards when hit through the shoulders. The only slug I was never impressed with was the 280gr Aframe, to much of a good thing and not enough speed at Whelen velocity.

I dont know how many pigs I have shot but I recall burying them with a backhoe one summer because all the freezers were full, homeless shelter did not want anymore pork and my uncle said if I did not get rid of the odor we would go back to trapping. Most of the pigs shot were in the 150-300lb range but occassionally we would pop one under 100lb for a BBQ. We quit planting barley shortly after than and went to lettuce, pigs pretty much disappeared and went onto the neighbors ranch, I guess they dont like to eat healthy.

Ive thought long and hard about the 35 Whelen for moose hunting. Last years moose was taken with a .30-06 using 220 grain C-L's. I was very happy with the performance. I'm not sure if the .35 Whelen and 250 grain bullets would do anything more for me or not. The .30 220 grain has a better SD but the .35 has more frontal diameter. Maybe it all evens out?

I think a .35W pushing a 250 at 2550 does something an -06 doesn't due considering the -06 tops out at about 2500 with a 220.

That said, I'd HUNT a big bear with an -06 and a really good bullet but would not want to try to STOP a big bear with either an -06 or a Whelan. Given a choice on the STOP issue, I'd take the Whelan.

Expat

If you're inclined to shoot the bigger 250grain bullets from your 338WM and your 35Whelen because of the big bears, and that's where you're headed w/ this thread, I'd put a 338/06, a 338WM, a Whelen, and a 350RM on the the table and go eenie meenie minie mo. A good 250gr bullet out the muzzle of any of those four would be big medicine. None of them are required to be too heavy, and all would work on most anything. If you want to work with something you have, turn that '06 of yours into a light 338/06 with a short barrel, maybe chop down your 338.

Otherwise, if you're content w/ 210-225gr bullets from your 338, run the bigger 200-220s out your '06 and be happy. That would be big medicine as well.

Good Luck:)

Nothing against the 30-06. It's a fine cartridge, but a Whelen will move a 225 grain bullet a couple hundred fps faster than a 30-06 with a 220 grain. It will move a 250 grainer about the same speed as a 220 out of 30-06. A Whelen does kick a bit more than an Ought Six, though. There is no free lunch if you put bigger bullets and more powder in something it will recoil more.

I'm not going to comment on killing power, as I have limited samplings with the cartridges under discussion. I will say that a 10# Whelen is too heavy. I built one that heavy with a Savage action, Adams & Bennett magnum contour barrel, Bell & Carlson stock, steel bases and rings, and an old steel Weaver K4. I've since switched to a wood stock (yes it was 1/2# lighter than the B&C), 1-piece aluminum Talley mounts, and a Leupold 3-9x40 Rifleman scope. Now it's a little over 8#, and carries nicely. I was also going to cut the barrel back from 24" to 22" or 20", at a guesstimated savings of 2 oz. per inch, but I like it just fine now as is.

BTW, I get 2725 fps from the factory Federal 225 grain TBBC, and it shoots under an inch at 100 yards. Trajectory-wise, that's very similar to a 30-06 w/180's, at least out to normal hunting ranges.

JV

444afic,
That's interesting about your 35Whelen. I've just fitted an A&B barrel to a Stevens 200 in 358Win and docked it to 20" to lighten it up ... but its still quite 'chunky'.
My next will be a Savage 111 from 338WinMag to 358Norma using a rechambered A&B 35Whelen barrel ... but have concerns over the excessively heavy contour. May end up having it recontoured ... not sure.
Cheers...
Con

an interesting concept...


http://35whelen.blogspot.com/


Whelen and Howe envisioned the .35 Whelen as a rifle capable of dropping very large or very dangerous game, calling for a barrel with a 1-in-12� rifling twist to stabilize heavy bullets up to 300 grains. Such a rifle would naturally be built on an appropriate dangerous-game action �- that is, first and foremost, a Mauser �98 type with controlled-round-feed including a self-locking spring steel extractor.

Most writers of the deer-hunting persuasion have seen the .35 Whelen as nothing more than a big deer cartridge, an outsize 30-06 suitable mainly for �brush busting,� something you can shoot your whitetail with when he�s standing behind a tree. This limited view of the cartridge by myopic gunwriters has done more to divert The Colonel�s potentially powerful flow into the mainstream of American cartridges than anything else.

Not so much interesting but simply a sign of the times when the 35Whelen was developed.

The 35Whelen perhaps has a fresh lease on life when you can get a 200gr TSX ... boost speeds ... hit with a greater diameter ... and still have penetration that would have been envied 100 years ago.
Cheers...
Con

I have both calibers & doubt with premium bullets there is any practical difference. I have shot 5 Black Bear from 300 to 400lbs. & probably at least a hundred hogs with the Whelen. I have also loaned out the Whelen while in hunting camps & another 5-6 Black Bears were killed. Only one required a second shot & that was more a mercy shot than one necessary to put the bear down. One of my favorite old hunting stories was in Outdoor Life or Sports Afield in the 60's. A grizzly became frisky with a timber survey crew & were forced to leave a remote part of Alaska. The next year a so called Professional Hunter was hired to kill the rogue grizzly by himself. After being treed the PH dispatched the grizzly with one shot from a 30-06 using a 250G. bullet. Probably a Remington factory load. Hunting an aggressive bear by oneself in the bush required a lot of bark.