Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska BOG Meeting.. Happening Now

http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/gameinfo/meetinfo/2010-2011/southeast/crass-final9-7-10.pdf

It'll be interesting to see what happens with POW bears. The guides put in Prop 37.

What say you?

Interesting to note:

The guides don't want a drawing permit for ALL non-res hunters, just the Unguided hunters for the following reason:



I'm sure some DIY guys would take issue with that. Plenty of educated guys show up, and have a GREAT time, without a guide.

Another slam towards the DIY crowd, which I feel is based on pure speculation:


Wound/loss may be well over 50%?

Are the comments made at these meetings available after the meetings?

They should be required to justify such claims with legitimate research.

I'd love to see that research.. I'll be asking the local game bio about that when he gets back to town.

Not sure if you can see the comments.

IMO, this is an allocation issue. I think everybody is in agreement that something needs to be done to cut down on the harvest on POW. Way too late IMO, but late is better than nothing.

If 100 of the tags go to guides, and only 150 tags are available, that leaves 50 tags for the DIY crowd.

Why are you using a 150 total tag drawing number? No one knows what the drawing allocation will be, that is even IF the BOG passes #36 or #37. ADF&G has been working on that in prep for the possible passage of the draw. The # of tags will be specific to the area, just like it is now for all draws. Unit #2 could be broken down into different areas of allocation, just like Unit #1, #3 and #5. Remember 2 years ago the BOG discussed the draw for SE Black Bear at length.

Wounding loss is and has been discussed for many years here in SE. The last time the BOG met in Ketchikan (a dozen years ago or so) it was a main topic of discussion.

Remember the Bear wounding law (for SE) that passed several years ago. I believe the BOG used accepted data for that action.

A lot of testimony (most from other than guides) from the last 2 days supported the non-resident non-guided draw.

We all knew a NR draw was coming. I support a NR draw; I wish it had happened 2 years ago. The main issue I have is allocation. What percentage of the tags will go to the guided hunter vs what percentage goes to DIY hunter. The way Prop 37 was written, it has the potential to give a very high percentage of the tags to the guided hunter, depending on how many tags the ADFG decides to issue in unit 2.

For example, if some of my 24hour campfire buddies decided to come up and hunt with me, how many years will they have to wait before they draw a tag, if the guided hunters are taking a good percentage of the available tags? Or, more importantly, will my brother have to wait a decade before he can shoot another POW bear with me? Full disclosure: I have zero financial interest in this issue.

If Kodiak is an example the guides get more nonresidents hunting than there are hunting residents... And they can change their minds well past the drawing deadlines and get permits... And other interesting things residents do not get.

Nonresidents are guaranteed a tag in almost every unit. I have drawn a total of two tags in about 12 tries. And I have not been applying for particularly tough units.

And the population has been obviously rising in the units over the time frame.

Are you saying the justification for these numbers can be had on the ADFG website?



Of course, every resident always supports NR draws. You see it all over the US. NR hunters have no political pull because they have no political vote. The only influence they have is with their dollars. The resident non-guided hunters go along with the idea because it seems in their best interest. The problem is guided hunts gain undo influence.

Resident DIY hunters need to realize that economically incented guided hunts are the enemy of all DIY hunters whether resident or not. Hunting or fishing should never first be business. All hunting and fishing whether for sport or subsistence should take precedence over business hunting and fishing.

In most cases, I would rather not hunt then use a guide. I refuse to hunt in much of Canada rather than bow to their ridiculous restrictions. Spending money on guides encourages the practice of exclusivity.

The future of hunting and fishing for the common people is at stake in my opinion.

+1.

I've had the same luck as Art has had with two exceptions... I've put in a couple more "trys" and have never drawn a Kodiak permit.

I could not support a permit hunt as mandantory for DIYS NR's if it gave guided NR's a pass...none required. That is just wrong. I too would like to see the raw data that supports the notion that non-guided, NR hunters have a 50% wound rate.
Makes one wonder what quarter it might have come from it does...

Agree.

Also, as more permits go to guide only, it will eventually push up the price of a guided hunt. Guides have wanted this for the last 10 years. Fish and Game has been waiting for a population issue to address this problem. Kuiu and Kupreanof are next.

The ADF&G just offically testified today that the number they use for the non recovered wounding rate is 25% for Black Bear in SE. Even though they don't seperate out Resident / Guided / Non-Guided Non-Res .... testimony said that 25% is a good middle ground number and the Non-Guided / Non-Resident would be the higest rates.

The Board tabled the action on Prop #37 untill this evening for further data and discussion from ADF&G.

Thanks for the information.

I don't see why a NR unguided rate would be higher. I think a strong case can be made that a non-guided NR is a more educated, dedicated, motivated and disciplined hunter then a guided hunter. This is exactly why these kinds of numbers can not be trusted to "conventional wisdom", but ,alas, as I said the NR hunter has no lobby and the results are foregone.

I've never understood the mandatory guide thing period. When mountain goat hunting for NR became a mandatory guide use I just laughed.

Been told it's the 'safety' issue. Course I've seen goats killed on the same mountain top that we've killed deer and no guide is required for them.

I'll need data to believe that one. So... what mountain are you talking about? Exactly please, lat/long is acceptable.

From what I've heard, the NR dink rate is higher on blackies.

Maybe in your world but this is certainly not the case on the POW Island Black Bear hunt.

Agreed, while NR might be plenty educated hunters, they are up against a timeline. 1 week to find a bear and drop it. They don't want to eat tag soup so chances are taken. Less than ideal shots are considered. For a lot of folks this is a once in a lifetime hunt. Residents have lots of time, and there's always tomorrow or next year.

The Board just discussed the 25% figure at length ... many agree that it is a justifiable figure.

They have tabled the vote on #37A (amended) but have instructed ADF&G to come up with some additional language.

I predict a pass .... this is only my opinion.

The drawing hunt for Black Bear will be divided into 10 hunt areas in Units #1,2&3 (they excluded Unit #5 at the direction of the Unit # 5 AC). I'm not sure if there will be any sub-areas.

The 10 areas will be broken into Spring 80% and Fall 20% hunts.

The Resident hunter is not affected and will not have to draw. The bag for the Resident will remain at 2 Bear as Prop #35 failed.