Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Middle School Tries a Trick Play

.....Or maybe we should just melt all of the trophies down and give all of the nice kids a ring for participating.

To my recollection a perfecty defining analogy of this situation may be portrayed as-

Two guys walk to the middle of the street to fight.

Each one has the intention of winning this so called fight.

The two young lads take stance ready to trade blow for blow.

One of the lads starts the fight by a quick shot to his opponents sak o nuts!

The opponent is baffeled as is his audience to this unexpected play that is perfectly legal in this arena but by an ethics standpoint is uncalled for.

The fight is over and both sides are disputing the outcome.

Ethically or unethically? Is the real question.

Is the sak grappler held high as king or is he revered as the lowlife sack basher that is too chicken to to go head to head ethically...

I myself would like to be respected......

But if it's "legal" Trey?

The line of distinction here is trickery during play (ball fakes, reverses, etc), and trickery that causes the other team NOT to play, and that combined with the age of the players. Like you said, though, once the ball is set for play...you have to be ready...young kids like that, can't be expected, even when properly coached, to recognize such an unusual looking situation, especially when an adult coach is "aiding in the deception" from the sideline.

If I'm walking into the middle of the street to fight someone 'bare handed' (meaning no weapons other than yourself), then the kick to the balls is TOTALLY fair game, and in no way 'unethical' ... and you're damn right that I'll do whatever I can to 'win' said fight, as long as I'm doing it by myself, and not with a stick, pipe, bat, brass knucks, knife, gun, etc...

Now, if we decide that we are only going to "box", meaning the only blows allowed in the fight are fists to the front of the body and face, then the kick to the balls is out of the question, and unethical if employed by anyone ...

but you said it's a "fight" for the purpose of "winning", ... so in that case, again, the kick to the balls is fine with me, and you'd better believe I'd blame myself if I didn't prepare for the other guy to try anything/everything to beat me ...

you're right ... it would be legal to field 11 vs. 9 ... but my point was that the 'trick play' was not an inherent advantage to either team, whereas fielding 11 vs. 9 is ...

and for the record, I wouldn't fault the other coach for fielding 11 players if I only had 9 ... in fact, I'd expect him to, since the game was/is designed for 11 players on either side of the ball ...

IF the other coach wanted to play 9 vs. 9, that's his call, but it wouldn't be a "bush league" move to play 11 players ... what WOULD be bush league would be for me to cry about it if I only had 9 players to put out there against him and his team ...

You are unethical like the cheap shot you pulled on Bart. Your a sack puncher, figures.

In my book you will now be referred to as Retod "The Puncher of the Sacks".

Do us a favor and stop admiring your turdtites and pull your head out of you fart cave, or just stop posting its starting to stink in here!

comment recinded, apology offered

Nope... You are wrong... WGM is one of the good guys here...

nah ... not at all ...

Once two guys square up to 'fight to win', and nobody is sucker-punching anyone before the fight is officially started, or using any weapons other than their own bodies ... if you're not smart enough or able to defend your entire body, that's not my fault.

The point of a fight is put your opponent in submission as quickly as possible, and to defend yourself from being injured or put into submission. That's the beginning and end of it all ...

My apologies WGM, I see it as a sucker punch and that is what I call it. A breach in a code of conduct.

The fight I am trying to explain is the fight of dignity. A code of ethics, the invisible boundry.

I see the other guy cheering for the nut shot. Why in the battle feild do you aim for the head or chest cavity for the kill and not the balls?
Winning is winning. I agree but why always look for loopholes to get the win instead of doing a hard days work? I see your point. I see Barts point. I don't see retods point.

How can you feel content with a sucker punch?
I'm being sincere.

From what I have read in your posts on this thread, the idea that you would comment on another poster's credibility due to name calling seems somewhat ironic...

Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle...

Chris

The real question is would I have shook hands with the other coach after the game if I lost because of that play. I suppose I would, after all, my kids would be watching, but I wouldn't forget and next year couldn't come too soon.

Alls fair in love and war.

The "Bad Ball" play is run in youth football all of the time. We choose not to teach it to our players but you can bet we teach them to look out for it....if that ball twitches that Center and QB better be ready......this was the opposing Coaches responsibility.

Bruz

OK - with this additional info NOW I'll go with Brother Bart's assessment for this age level. The coach- a supervising adult- getting into the game in this way crosses my line. Had he just sent the play in from the sidelines as normal, then my original opinion vis-a-vis knowing the fundamentals would stand.

Still, the opposing coach should have taught his boys the ball-in-play rules.

According to news reports (NY Daily News), Driscoll was trailing Wynn Seale middle school 0-6 in the third quarter and had just been called for a penalty. As the next play began, the quarterback looked to the sidelines and then yelled to his team the officials needed to move the ball five more yards to the correct spot after the penalty. He then asked his center for the ball, and the rest is history. The game ended in a 6-6 tie.

Coach Art Rodriguez called the play, known to his team as the "Penalty Play," one of the highlights of his 31-year coaching career.

If this is truly how the play transpired, I feel even more strongly this was a chicken-schitt play designed more to swell the egos of the coaches than to broaden the skill levels and sportsmanship of his players.

Nice job coach Rodriguez...

Chris

I agree. I can see questioning its use in an ethical sense, but one of the most basic lessons in defense is ball movement by the center means 'live ball', and that defense standing there showed a lack or preparedness. Right or wrong, they weren't prepared for the play.



I grew up in these coach's era, and both placed a great deal of importance on winning. I wouldn't even begin to imagine what either would say about this particular play, but given the fact winning was on the line, I doubt they would disapprove. Neither worried about 'hurt feelings' as long as rules weren't broken.

"If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?"

"Winning is not a sometime thing, it's an all the time thing. Winning is a habit"

"The object is to win fairly, by the rules... but to win!"

Vince Lombardi

The question to argue, especially by Vince's last quote, is was this fair, and by the rules?
Great discussion (minus the unwanted personal attacks). I can see the passion of both sides.
Jim

Somehow I get the impression that a lot of guys here played on a lot of losing teams......and always had an excuse.

Trick plays are just that....tricks. It is the resposibility of coaches....and players....to prepare for these plays because they ARE going to happen in one form or another. This particular play is NOT new and has existed at least since the 1970's when I was playing.....we saw it tried then too.

The way to defeat this type of play is to be alert and NEVER qit playing without a whistle. If the quarterback had been met by two defensive tackles and a middle linebacker (all three attempting to separate his head from his body) as soon as he took the first step......this discussion wouldn't be happening. Instead you'd be watching a video titled "OUCH!!".

I don't have any problem with any team running plays like this....you do what it takes to win within the rules. I DO have a problem with a coach who doesn't prepare his team and teach the rules of the game, then gets beat because of that lack of coaching.....and then cry about being "tricked" when the real fault was his own.

This play is in the same class as a famous play by Texas A&M to beat Texas one year where a pass was "skipped" to a wide reciever, apparently incomplete.....except the reciever was one step back from the line of scrimage and the "pass" was actually a lateral. The quarterback and reciever both demontsrated displeasure and began yelling at each other while walking back to the center of the field, Texas defense quit and began to go back to the line, everyone on the field quit......all except the far side reciever who "sneaked" down the field, into the end zone where he was tossed an easy TD pass.

Was this a "trick"...sure it was just like this play being talked about here. WAS it illegal.....no, well within the rules, just as THIS play. WAS the offense a buch of dirty players for running it.....no, the fault lay with the defense for quitting before the play was dead and coaches for not preparing their team to play......just as in the case here.

Middle school, high school, college and pros.....it's all the same. fail to prepare or play with your head.....in the clouds??.....and you will be beaten by a smarter team.

I believe it was Lambardi who said..."The rules were NOT made to be broken, but it is my perogotive to stretch them as far as possible". I find it informative that so many want to blast a team or coach who used the rules to their benifit and WON.....instead of ripping a coach/team who didn't prepare and stood around with their thumbs in their.....pockets???....while the other team "took" their championship.

That was a great play. Hard to fathom that some here are upset that the coach called for this play. Maybe what TexasRick stated is why.

One of the questions officials ask coaches before the beginning of the game is if they have any trick plays. They ask so that they will be aware and not blow that whistle inadvertently during one of them and to determine as best they can the legality of the play.

Alan