Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Comments re: Elmer Keith and Jack O'Connor

Elmer's house, this Sunday morning

"Hell,I Was There" is pretty much all you need.I own pretty much everything the man ever put in print,short of some of the really rare titles,and it's by far the best thing he ever put out IMHO.I've probably read it cover to cover 20 times,at least.

This thread actually makes me want to read it again,in fact.The story about traveling to Alaska by boat and hunting for grizzly bear is without a doubt my favorite hunting story ever,bar none.

Brian.

�Hell, I Was There� is his autobiography. �Gun Notes� Volumes I and II are compendiums of his articles. Some of the info in them is sort of dated as it talks about rifles and firearms no longer made but a lot of it is timeless. Plus, they are the best way to give you a first hand look at what all the hubbub about Elmer was about. �Sixguns� by Keith is another classic that is useful to this day.

E.g., had the new Bisley Blackhawk .44 Special out at the range last weekend and from the offhand position was popping the ringer set out at 230 yards. I learned how to shoot handguns at long range specifically from reading Elmer�s articles on that subject.

Just posted another Elmer note on the "tragedy with a Model 70" thread.

About the PO Ackley incident, without digging "Hell I was There" out of the packing cases, wasn't Elmer in his position as an inspector at the arsenal rejecting barrels, and that action on his part lead to the sabotage?

I think Hell I Was There would make one Hell of a movie.

Elmer was right about handguns because they haven't evolved much since 1880. Rifles, however, are another matter.

O

I was one who grew up with Outdoor Life and read Jack O all the time. My dad and I would sit in the living room watching
the Saturday hunting shows of the time....and dreaming about our "big safari" that we would someday take. My dad always enjoyed reading anything by Jack and would always pass it along to me. No wonder that both of us loved the .270 Win. I still have several in the cabinet and use them quite often. I don't think that Jack was so "into himself".....I believe he was a
"rifleman's rifle" shooter and that is what he called the Model 70 Win. at that time. He, being the journalist that he was, usually just reported the facts, and expounded on his hunting trips (I don't care that he got the royal treatment and paid vacations to do his job)I think everything I read by him was pretty objective and he added a lot of detail to the loads, equipment and other items he enjoyed about his research and his safaris. I don't have a dog in the "caliber wars" fight as all my hunting is done in the "lower 48", especially here in my home state of Az...and my trusty old .270's do their job just fine on anything I will likely encounter in my lifetime. Count me as a big fan of Jack O'Connor and I miss reading his literature.

Excellent thread!
My 73 year old hunting partner spent several of his youth years in Salmon back in the 40's and 50's. He knew the Keith family and Sheriff Baker's family very well. His father went on a few pack trips with Elmer.
They eventually moved to Lewiston and he bacame freinds with O'Connor and Mr. Speer.
I have spoken with Ted Keith and a few of the folks who know Elmer well back in Salmon, including the fellow that was his gunsmith after Ed Schaller quit doing his work.
Great stuff for sure!
Photo #1 from left: Lorraine, Elmer, D. Martindale & W. Williamson - Just before a hunt in the mid 1940's
Photo #2 from left: Lorraine, my friend, my friends mom, Ted Keith and Elmer - 1940's
Photo #3 is my freind on one of Elmer's horses....the same horse is seen in a photo towards the back of Elmer's Big Game book.

THREEDFLYER: Excellent and thanks for the contribution to a great thread!

WOW!! THANKS!!!

I grew up reading everything Jack O'Connor wrote, I loved the 270 caliber & took many elk with it using 130 gr Hornady bullets. There's no doubt he was a very gifted writer & the articles about sheep hunting would make anyone feel like they were right there with him.
One time he penned an article about sheep hunting in old Mexico & made the statement that there were 2 ways to go about it, first was, you took your chances like everyone else & patiently waited for your number to be called...or something along those lines.
The other way was to "know" the right people in Mexico & they could make anything happen, that was O'Connor's method & he kind of rubbed it in everyone's face, from then on I never cared for him.
Although I never met Jack O'Connor I did meet Elmer Keith several times & he was much bigger than 5' 6", he was more like 10' 14"!! I liked everything about him & for sure he was the real deal. His shooting was witnessed by many people over several decades, you notice that even later in life he didn't wear glasses, that really helps.
It was Ross Seyfried who said Elmer Keith was the best shot he ever knew with the rifle, shotgun & sixgun combined.
I really enjoyed going out back to his "writing" & trophy room behind the house, it was an old converted garage & many of the animals at the Elmer Keith museum in Boise were in that old building. A couple of times when I was there I had my wife with me & she would visit with Lorraine in the house while I went out back with Elmer, it was a special time.
On one trip I was delivering a Ruger #1 in 45/70 to Jed Wilson, a lawman in Salmon, he had told Elmer I was coming & Elmer met me at the door, 4" model 29 on his hip & a stogie (cigar) in his hand, the women visited & I would buy another book, Elmer would sign it & we would go out back for some real visiting, it was great, he was always polite & I never heard him swear, some people have said he swore a lot, I don't believe it.
I'll tell you one thing he hated more than anything on earth...Golden Eagles!
This is one of the books Elmer signed for me back in the mid 70's.








These next photos were lost for over 20 years, one of my son's found them this summer. I had always thought I took this photo of Elmer holding the 45/70 I sold to Jed Wilson, after seeing the photo's he's holding one of his own #1's, I think it was in 458 Winchester.


You can just make out the 4" model 29 on his hip, its in a Hank Sloan holster, either made by Lawrence or by Milt Sparks.


If the wood paneling in Elmer's trophy room looks familiar to some of you its because the paneling was removed & placed in the Elmer Keith museum in Calelas in Boise.

[img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/029_29-2.jpg[/img]
I've been asked many times why I didn't get a photo of me & Elmer together... I can't answer that, I thought I did have one but have never found it if I did, back in the 70's was way before digital & taking a self portrait was more difficult, plus I might have been embarassed to ask!

Dick

That photo is gold.

Thanks for sharing,
Brian.

Thanks , all of you for this GREAT thread.

Wonderful writings about our icons and friends !

GTC

Very nice, and thank you for the info!

This has been a great thread. It may be the longest running threads in CF history. I have always had a great admiration for Keith and O'Connor. It was a time in our history that most of us never experienced, and we will never see again.
Tim

I have read many comments that indicate Elmer was a really nice guy but I have often wondered if he had a sense of humor.
In his stories and articles he always seems as serious as a heart attack.

It's a blast finding treasures such as these photos.......
I sent them to Ted Keith and he says they are the best photos of his house that he has from that time period.
Tom

All I can say is, "Wow!!!". Those are some incredible photos and stories. I love hearing about what some of my gunwriting heroes as a kid were really like by people who had met them and knew them- and those who I just admired because they owned, used, loved, and got to write about guns, but whose work I didn't see on a regular basis.

Also wanted to add a thought I just had about these what-were-the-gunwriters-really-like threads. In spite of the fact that I've learned at least a few were jerks, at least a couple were theives, etc.; I've not been nearly as devasted as I was when I started learning that my Hollywood heroes (mostly as a kid, but even years later) were and are almost universally scumbags.

I never Met Keith personally but I knew O,Connor quite well. Jack once told me that Elmer Keith had more hot air in him than a balloon. I never bothered to read Keith's stories after reading the first.It was clear to me that his stories were mostly fake. I mean come on, a small black bear is 17 hit times with a 270 and runs into the next county where he's finally finished off with 2 shots from a 450 Westley Richards? Elmer Keith's writings are sort of like WWF wrestling. Jack's writings were the real thing and Jack was the real thing. In one of Jack's conversation's with a friend he said and I quote, ( Who will ever replace me?) Answer, NO ONE.