Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Comments re: Elmer Keith and Jack O'Connor

Do you think Elmer hunted in Africa on his own dime? Or make some of those trips to Alaska and Canada? ALL of the old time writers got free hunts, paid for by employers or wealthy friends/adoring fans or by the outfitters themselves...still happens today. Do you believe that Craig Boddington, who has made at least 100 safaris to Africa, as well as trips all over the globe, has managed to pay for all of this on his own?

Your point assuming you have one??

Different professions carry with them different benefits....we don't bemoan the airline pilot who flies for free;nor the hunting outfitter from British Columbia who swaps a grizzly hunt with his contemporary in Wyoming or Montana for a Rocky Mountain bighorn hunt.......

Yet some small minds cannot resist the temptation to take a backhanded slap at a gun writer of substantial prominence who, in the course of his employment and profession(which he earned by being skilled at his craft)had the opportunity to avail himself of a free hunt.Forgotten is the fact that a likewise benefit incurred to the outfitter, in publicity,.... to the magazine for which the writer wrote, providing entertainment to untold thousands and fueling dreams of similar hunts,and of course to the writer as well.I see nothing reprehensible in all of this,and the writer is not in any way diminished in my mind.

I suspect this attitude prevails among those unable to do such hunts for any variety of reasons,jealous of the benefits flowing to others as a result of their lifes work.

To depracate a great writer, who helped popularize our sport,educated and entertained untold thousands(millions?) over two or three generations,and who,even three decades after his death, is still the subject of great conversation, is carping and sniping at the highest level,and the work of morons.

Spot on BobinNH, you hit it out of the park!!!!!!

I couldn't care less except to ask them how I could do the same thing.

...isn't that what bears do in the woods?????

gmoats: Deprecate .....that better?

Think I have nothing better to do than do spell check for Campfire posts? Humblest apologies. I'll call you for editing before my next post.........geeeezzz.

Lighten up Bob, it was meant to be humorous--it's almost Thanksgiving, be thankful for JOC and EK or something--no need to be defensive over a play on words--Happy Thanksgiving.
Greg

Greg have a great Thanksgiving...and if you are hunting I hope you are successful.

Kevin Jay,

Don't know where you get your information that O'Connor "was tossed out like last weeks haddock dinner." Probably the same place as "the list of better writers with vastly more experience."

To set the record straight, I'll give it to you straight from O'Connor's pen. "In 1972 I was 70 years old. The Popular Science Publishing Company had been bought by Times-Mirror. When the fine print of the contract was thoroughly gone over it was found that those of us on the staff who were over 65 would have to retire by June 1 if they were to receive pensions warranted by their age. If they stayed on the staff after that and then retired they would lose considerable money--in my case around $175 a month. Bill Rae and I made a deal. I'd retire but my name would be on the masthead as hunting editor. I would write six to eight stories and articles a year for a good fee and on subjects of my own choosing, including guns and shooting.

A year after I retired as gun (shooting) editor Bill Rae himself reached 65 and decided to put himself out to pasture. As his successor he chose a young man who had been managing editor under him. This guy seemed amiable enough but he was not a hunter, not a fisherman, and not a writer. He had never struck me as a person of great force. I told Bill I didn't think he would do. He did not agree with me.

The first thing he did was to write me and tell me that since Outdoor Life had a new shooting editor he didn't want me to do any gun or shooting stuff for the front of the book. This was contrary to a signed agreement I had but I said nothing. Next he wrote me that he wanted to be able to put his finger on me at any time. I was to call him and get his permission if I left my desk. Again I said nothing. Then I sent in the first piece I had written since his take-over. I got it back with four pages of instructions about how it should be rewritten.

At any rate when I had read the editor's letter I realized that if I stayed with Outdoor Life it would be like being nibbled to death by rabbits. I made a telephone call and told the editor I was leaving. (As an aside, Al Biesen was present during O'Connor's call to Outdoor Life and told me about it) I made another call to George Martin soon to be publisher of the newly-hatched magazine, Hunting--I was added to the staff and this was one of the most fortunate moves I have ever made!" O'Connor related all this in the Outdoor Magazines chapter of his The Last Book. It can be found on pages 27 and 28.

TT

curdog4570

O'Connor never made it a secret that his hunts were paid for by his employer, Outdoor Life Magazine. Obviously, considering the material generated from these hunts that appeared in the magazine, his employer felt well justified in the return on their investment. If they hadn't, they wouldn't have done it don't you think?

TT

tsquare
Ok, I will happily admitt the fish thing was, how shall we say, a bit over the top. How about we say, to quote a well known writer, "forcibly retired"

As far as better writers go, that is my opinion. Agree or not, it is still mine.

As far as hunters with more experience, I already named one, I'll give you another, Warren Page. Over 500 head of game with the various 7mm's, although the 375 Weatherby was his favorite. Read "One Man's Wilderness, very enjoyable.

I own "The Hunting Rifle" and "The complete book of Rifles and Shotguns", have read both several times over the years and enjoyed both.

ALL of you missed the point of my post . My point is the same one Big Stick made several years ago :

HE SHOT DINKS !!

The question about his "record book trophies " was tongue in cheek since it's a well known fact that ;

HE SHOT DINKS !!

Kevin Jay,

I have no disagreement with your preference in writers. As you say, that is your opinion. My semi-objection was to the "more experienced" comment than to your choice of writers. By the way, I do have and have read "One Man's Wilderness," by Warren Page. I did enjoy it.

If you, by the term "forcibly retired," are referring to his age forcing retirement, then I will agree with you. However, the tone I got in your comment was that he was fired. I don't believe that is factually accurate.

TT

The hear say becomes fact to you, right?

I have enjoyed almost all of the writers mentioned in this thread....and was fortunate enough to meet a few (did not know them well, but did meet them).

To me the difference between O'Connor and Keith (as well as several of the others mentioned) was the attitude O'Conner seemed to reek of....that of a spoiled rich boy who thought he was "above" anyone else who didn't have his privaleged lifestyle (paid-for hunts, education and trophies "earned" by money and position.

O'Connor was likely the best wordsmith who ever wrote for the "outdoors" press......very few will question that. His years as a professor and technical ability as a writer were unmatched. Hell, the man could have written an article about shooting rats in the backyard and made it entertaining.

What he lacked was the humility and honesty.....and experience in real-life situations....that others had. When you read the works of Elmer Keith, Bob Hagle or Warren Page, you come away with the feeling that these men could be dropped cold into any enviroment, anywhere....and succeed with just their own ability as a hunter.

With O'Connor, I always got the impression that he'd succeed too.....due to the latest Prince or Potentate's private hunting grounds, or due to the skill of the high-priced guide who held his hand. Maybe not fair, but that's the impression he gave......and lorded the ability to make such hunts over the heads of anyone else.

With Keith or Hagel (both of whom I did meet) I always came away believing any opinion they expressed was due to "personal" experience. Maybe not always as "accurate" as things DID change during their lifetimes, but totally "honest".

With O'Connor, it was more a feeling that if "everything is perfect".... which in his mind it would be if one had the advantages of hunting the places and situations he did, and anyone who didn't have those advantages was somehow "less of a hunter" than Jack....such-and-such would work.

To me, if one followed the advice of Keith, Hagel and Page, you would seldom be far from wrong. With O'Connor.....not so much.

However, I would never, EVER, say Jack wasn't a great writer because he was.....just a little lacking as a "hunter" and "earned" opinion. Some may disagree with that final statement, but have no doubt that O'Connor was a GREAT writer....but writer doesn't nessisarily translate into great HUNTER.

And Keith shot Rowland Ward and Boone & Crockett specimens?

TT

Actually I would call it "Read Say".

You say that like its a BAD thing.....

And of course you take it as fact, right? Without any other facts and discoubt O'Conner's version. Amazing