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I�m hoping Mule Deer will weigh in on this.
I�m planning on switching to the most temperature insensitive propellants I can for most of my rifle cartridge reloading. This has me considering standardizing on several Hodgdon Extreme Powders, Some of the cartridges I will be loading for, like the 9.3x62 and 6.8 SPC, are volumetrically challenged, which make the denser ball powders, like the RamShot line, attractive.
In terms of temperature sensitivity, how do the RamShot powders compare to the Hodgdon Extreme powders?
Hodgdon H4350 vs Ramshot Hunter
Hodgdon Varget vs Ramshot Big Game
Hodgdon H4895 vs Ramshot TAC
Hodgdon H322 vs Ramshot X-Terminator
Brazos_Jack
Brazos Jack
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Campfire Kahuna
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I haven't tested H322 or X-Terminator in cold, so I don't know about them.
The Hodgdon Extremes are overall the most consistent powders in cold temps that I've tested, but in my tests TAC and Big Game did just about as well as the Extremes. Hunter (and Ramshot) didn't do quite as well, but were still very good.
That said, according to a very experienced lab technician, temp-stability can change depending on the cartridge and application. He used the word "stressed" when describing what happens to a supposedly temp-stable powder when the powder is used outside it's normal uses.
He gave the specific example of Varget with 140-grain bullets in the .260 Remington. Varget wouldn't be the "best" Extreme powder to use with 140's. Instead the best choice would probably be H4350. In that application, he said, Varget loses some temp-stability.
I've used quite a bit of Ramshot TAC, Big Game, Hunter and Magnum when hunting here in Montana in cold weather, and all have done very well--as my chronograph tests indicated they should.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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"That said, according to a very experienced lab technician, temp-stability can change depending on the cartridge and application. He used the word "stressed" when describing what happens to a supposedly temp-stable powder when the powder is used outside it's normal uses".
Vhtavuori had posted the same/similar findings in regards to temp-stability on their website. It's very cartridge specific as to just how stable a given powder is. I don't know if it's still on the website or not.
Just trying to add a little something JB.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Thanks for the additional info!
When I've run my own cold-tempeature tests, I've tested cartridge/bullet combos that are very well suited to the powders, such as TAC and Benchmark with 50-grain bullets in the .223, or H4350 and Hunter with 100-grain bullets in the .257 Roberts.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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The mechanism of MV variation with temperature is that cold steel, lead, and brass rob more energy from the propellant gas than hot steel, lead, and brass do. Different chamber surface areas and cartridge case masses require different compensations for initial temperature. JB is absolutely correct that a powder that compensates very well in one cartridge will likely compensate poorly in another.
Be not weary in well doing.
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John,
The one variable I question is primers. I noticed that often Ramshot load data shows standard primers over magnum primers.
I started out before hunting season with an Accurate ball powder in my 7-08 and standard primers. In the warmer weather it was a 1/2" combination, but when got cold it opened up. Out of concern I switched to a stick powder.
If I had started with magnum primers, would I have been more likely to maintain groups in different temperatures?
Aaron
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It would have been something to try, for sure.
I sometimes find magnum primers make an accuracy difference with Ramshot powders even at "normal" temperatures.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Thanks John,
The density of Big Game should definitely make it easier to get enough powder under a 250gr NAB or 286gr NP in a 9.3x62 than with Varget for top velocities.
Xterminator looks like a good way to get enough powder under a 110gr or 115gr for a good whitetail load in 6.8 SPC. I just hope its temperature stable enough to be consistent in all conditions.
Brazos Jack
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Campfire Kahuna
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I haven't found Big Game to have any advantage with 250's in the 9.3x62, but it's definitely a top powder with 286's.
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In my CZ550FS, a recent experiment with 9.3X62 250 grain NAB and 63.5 grains of Big Game with WLR primers gave good results. Would you recommend I play with magnum primers to optimize for hunting temperatures ~5 - 10 degrees below freezing?
Many thanks!
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Campfire Kahuna
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The only time I use magnum primers with Ramshot powders in standard cartridges is if I'm not getting the accuracy desired with regular primers. WLR primers are pretty hot anyway, so I'd just stick with your load.
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I've been researching this on the interweb because I'm I have two good loads, one with 8208 XBR and another with TAC and am inclined to go with TAC if it's reasonably temperature insensitive. From what I've been able to dig up it seems to be pretty good. However, all the comments have been subjective and I haven't read any actual tests/samples to state actual changes across a temp range.
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You're welcome!
What sort of velocity and accuracy are you getting?
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Mule Deer, how does Reloader 15 stack up against Varget, Big Game, Tac, etc in terms of temperature sensitivity? I recently started trying RL 15 in my 308 with 150's and 165's and accuracy has been stellar compared to Varget and IMR. 4895. Some say RL15 is very temp sensitive and others say it isn't. Any thoughts? The majority of my shots are well under 200 yards and a 300 yard shot would be rare where I hunt. Thanks!
"I am at heart a meat hunter." John Barsness, The Life of the Hunt
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Campfire Kahuna
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Colin,
In my experience RL-15 is the most temp-resistant of the Reloder series, but in my tests Varget, Big Game and TAC are better in most cartridges.
But as I have pointed out now and then, if you're shooting at shorter ranges (and out to 300 would qualify) then the big factor is where the bullets land. If there's no significant difference in point of impact at various temperatures, then you're good to go!
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"I am at heart a meat hunter." John Barsness, The Life of the Hunt
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I plan to get some readings in real high temps this summer with TAC, H4895, 8208 XBR, Leverevolution and 2000MR and then repeat on a relatively cold day next winter. Wonder if keeping rounds iced and then chambering them and shooting quickly would reasonably replicate winter temps. barrel wouldn't as cold, and as long as it was shot very quickly the primer and powder wouldn't get heated up much. Certainly not the powder anyway. Hmmm, something to try.
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My experience is that just cooling (or heating) the ammo doesn't produce the same results as when EVERYTHING is at "hunting temperature," whatever that is.
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Thanks for the additional info!
When I've run my own cold-tempeature tests, I've tested cartridge/bullet combos that are very well suited to the powders, such as TAC and Benchmark with 50-grain bullets in the .223, or H4350 and Hunter with 100-grain bullets in the .257 Roberts. John, There hasn't been much mention of Benchmark, and I'm using it in my 358 WSSM - how does it compare vs TAC with regard to temp insensitivity? Thanks!
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