Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game HELENA(SP)MONTANA

O.K. It isnt yac county sorry guys our friend lives in helena and wants us to come out there next year for elk and mulies.We will be hunting the bitteroot area,what is the best time of the year for elk and mule deer?I have been to the montana web page and the licences seem to work like our sportsman licence but just for big game(everything all rolled into one)Do their seasons run together?What can we expect out of our hunt by doing it ourselves?This is our first out of state hunt and we want it to go as smooth as possible.Also what is a good caliber for our hunt? I really dont like to shoot over 300 yards.I figured that this trip is as about as good a reason to buy a new rifle!!!!!!!!!

northernredneck,
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<br>From this post and the previous, I would have to say that the folk you are talking to in Helena are not all that experienced in the hunting department. Not knowing what county they plan to hunt and then saying the Bitteroot is extremly vague. The bitteroot is larger then many an eastern state by vast amounts. To give you an example, if I said that I would hunt in the bitteroot, that would be like saying that I am hunting somewhere in Vermont, roughly the same size. Just the county I grew up in, in Montana, is more then 3X the size of Road Island.
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<br>I think you need to ask these 'friends' of yours some basic questions, and find out if THEY are up to it. Elk hunting is a wounderful thing but it is not for the unaware or unschooled. As for seasons and such the offical Montana game commision web IS the source.

Our friend just moved out there this year.He lives in the capital(helena?)We will be hunting in that area.Iwould like to know any info on the terrain,what weather to expect in oct-nov,what type of caliber,boots,anything that will can help us have a better time?As far as being unaware and unschooled that is why I am trying to get some info here Our freind just moved out there so he has not hunted there to long,I cant afford a guided hunt or I would go on one!I am aware that I have never done anything like this and I am in no way saying that I know how to do it but that isnt going to defer my freinds and I from trying to go and have a good time.I thought that seeing as how my freind has had alot of hunting experience in that area that the people on this board would do their best to try and help me,thank you and anyone else for the help.

northernredneck,
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<br>It would be helpful if you filled in some of the infromation in the control panel. Your location and such would help ease some of the questions the posters here have about you.
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<br>If your friend just moved out there, the best advice is find some local 'tutor' that already can answer the questions that you are asking. The only real advice that I can give you at this time is resreach.
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<br>The weather in the Helena area, look up the history on the weather web site. As for clothing and such, match it to the weather and terrain. As for terrain, I hope you have spent some time hiking the Rockies, nothing back east is even close, and nothing I say here will get you ready ethier mentally or physically for them. What can you do starting right now. Start jogging, start slow and work up to five miles a day. Once there then add a day pack with 5lbs of wieght in it. Add five pounds each week until you are up to 30 lbs and five miles jogging. As for the rifle, if you were to tell us what you already have and if you have any experience or not with it would give us an idea were to start the issue of a firearm for YOU for elk hunting. No matter what you hear of read about rifles for elk, if YOU can not shoot it, then it is the WRONG one for you.
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<br>Please update your profile abit more and reply with your experience with rifle. What type, cal, practice and such. Also the type of hunting experience you have at this point. Do not be ashamed to admit if it is zero. We just need to know where to start.

O.K. I have hunted in new york all my life.The areas that I hunt have alot of ridges on them but nothing major.I had a 300 mag remington model 700 bdl but sold it to try and get something lighter in the same cal or a 7 mag.I have no problem shooting long distance susing shooting sticks or a bipod out to(this is my personal limit I can shoot farther effectivly)300 yards.On elk I feel that I could extend that distane do to the animal being bigger maybe to 350 or 400.I shoot alot all year long I enjoy shooting alot. I am a big guy and jogging 5 miles will never happen,in fact I dont know of two many people that could LOL.I can walk long distances with a semi full pack and not have to many problems.One thing I have never done is processed a animal and packed it out.I have all the neccesary clothing I just want to know what to expect.I will have about 200 to spend on binoculars can anyone suggest a pair.thanks for listening to my ramblings.

ok, i'm going to take a stab here, but keep in mind i have never hunted in montana. i have hunted western s.d. plenty of times, and that may/may not apply...
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<br>at any rate... for the cartridge, i reccomend a 7 rem mag.
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<br>for binoculars under $200 i reccomend nikon action series 10x50.
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<br>for a nifty tool to help w/ gutting, get a zip-saw (cabela's has it for about $15).
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<br>i personally don't hunt without a bipod. i am very happy w/ my harris (i think the model is 25c, but not sure... it is the tallest one they make). it is long enough to use while sitting w/o hunching over your rifle.
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<br>for packing an elk out, you'll have to hope that somebody else can offer guidance there.
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<br>hope the hunt pans out for ya!

northernredneck,
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<br>Thanks for the updated info.
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<br>If you plan to hunt elk off road and you have never been hunting expect NYS. START jogging !!!. You will need it. If you go to Montana to hunt elk you will most likely be above 5000 feet and getting up to 7000 is not out of the question. A lot less O2 for them ol lungs. I agree that most are not able to jog five miles and that is why most are not able to hunt elk. When I say jog that means an easy jog not a run. What you are trying to do is build up your staying power for both your legs and lungs.
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<br>I will give you an overview of one elk experience I had south east of Dillion in the mountians. Myself and two friends where hunting at apx 6000 ft when we hear two shot from behiend the ridge. About 20 minutes latter we see two fellas comming down from the top. They spots us and start yelling. We figured to get them to stop making such a scence we better go see what was up. Well it turns out these two (from out of state) jumped a nice size bull in his bedding area and the one fella got two shots at it going away from him. He was using a .375 H&H. He was sure he hit it since they were following the blood, thank God there was a two to three inches of snow. They wanted to know if we had seen it and if we could help them find. Well I grew up you NEVER leave wounded game, yours or someone elses. Well to get to the end of the tale, the five of us tracked that 'wounded' bull the rest of the day over three more ridges and two valleys. I would say at least seven to eight miles. Those two fellas from out of state looked like death nearing sundown, breathing hard, bad cases of fatigue. I grew up running up and down those very mountians and I was wiped.The ridge lines were in the 7500 foot level and the valleys at the 5500 foot level. There are no elevators out there.
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<br>The points I am trying to make with this little tale are three.
<br>1. a big gun does not make up for poor shot placement, ever!!
<br>2. elk hunting is not for the weak of body
<br>3. elk are one of the most tenacious of life animals, even when hit.
<br>This is why the person who can year in and year out hunt elk on thier trems and bring home the bacon each time is respected where I come from. Most local hunters can not do this ethier.
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<br>As for rifle, if you already have the 7mm Mag that will do if you do your part. use 175 Noslers partitions and put them where they belong, better yet put two or three where they belong.

Rather than buying a new rifle invest your money in a health club or start jogging in the hills. Like was already stated you need to be in shape. In fact you CANNOT be in too good of shape to elk hunt PERIOD! You could be just as unsuccessful with a 300RUM as a 30.30 if you aren't in good enough shape to get to the elk. Just this year a good friend of mine took out a local hunter on a special draw late season elk hunt. This is a slam dunk hunt and about as easy as it's going to get for a trophy wild elk. My buddy showed him plenty of bulls, but the guy with the tag and a brand new 300RUM never cut a hair. Why, because he couldn't get to the bulls when he need to or he flubbed the shot with an unfamiliar heavy recoiling rifle when he did have a chance. In fact from what I was told a 30.30 with open sights may have been a better rifle for the shot under the circumstances. However had the guy been in good shape he would of had multiple opportunities to kill a great bull with his new shiney rifle. If you can jog 5 miles a day you stand a chance of getting to those bulls. If you can jog 2 miles a day you might get to those bulls. If you can't jog a mile you main as well stay in N.Y. Elk hunting is flat out brutal, end of story.

THANKS GUYS I WILL GET SOME MORE INFO AND POST IT ,AND I GUESS I HAVE TO START TO WORK OUT

screw all that jogging and runnin crap.rent a pack mule.
<br> easy on the back and feet....yours that is.

Northernredneck. It sounds like you've been getting the business from all those authentic elk hunters out there. You know the ones I mean. Those who leave camp at 3:00 a.m. return at 10:00 p.m., hunt only the darkest timber and only on those sides of the moon where there are no roads or at least they are all 10 miles back-in the bush from the nearest road. You know the types. They all walk at least 20 miles a day. Phooey. Certainly get in shape you will need all the lungs and legs you have. Shoot at least a 7mm Remington Mag. or a 30-06. Shoot heavy bullets for the caliber gun you have. Sight the rifle in and practice with it. Drive the roads in elk country this spring and summer and find out where they go and where they don't, get a friend with you who also is interested in elk hunting. Get a good pack frame, with a hip belt. Get at least 3-4 knives, a small saw for bone and four or five pack sacks to carry out meat. Get about 50 feet of parchute chord and go hunt elk. Drive the roads and use your binoculars and find where the elk have been crossing the roads and what area they have been using. Realize that those elk near the roads will see plenty of other hunters. Heck, I might even be one of those they see. Hunting the road is my favorite place on the first day or two. The elk are still using their regular, pre season, movement routes and often cross roads. In Idaho, the road is one of the few places you can see more than 20-30 yards. An elk is a big animal, about like a horse, so if you kill one, the job is much easier if there are two of you. Don't hunt in the afternoon by yourself unless you are up to spending the night in the woods if the weather isn't cold enough to keep your meat until the next day. Have fun, heck it is only hunting! It's suppsoed to be fun.

Rolly,
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<br>I am not sure if you are refering to me when you mention "authentic elk hunters" but you will notice that I said "if you plan to hunt away from the road".
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<br>I do not disagree, but have a wounded one cross that first ridge line, and I hope you are really up to it. Your point about not hunting elk alone, well taken here. Actually all the points about hunting elk are well made. I have not hunted elk for over 10 years, but I can remember everyone I was ever on. Nothing in the lower 48 is quite like it. If I was presented the chance to do it again like northernredneck, I would be the first to eat my own hat and start getting in shape, especially the jogging part.

You know, Pick, I wasn't specifically talking about you or anybody else in particular. I just get a bit tired of those of us who portray our beloved sport as something that must be endured only by the most macho of the macho. Living in Idaho, I routinely hear from hunters who think that they hunted some 20 miles in a day and hunted some 10 miles from the nearest road. Honestly, I am sure they feel like they did the trecking they say they did but at least here in Northern Idaho, there are damn few places that are more than an honest mile or two from the nearest road. So, the macho guys are the ones I'm referring to. It seemed to me that the poor fellow who startd this thread was trying to get information about hunting around Helena and he was just getting a run around about wheter or not he could handle the physical conditioning end of the hunt and not getting any really useful information about how to go about elk hunting. My letter was written a bit out of frustration.

Rolly,
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<br>I understand your frustration, and basicly I agree. My inital response to northernredneck was terse due to the lack of information and out right mis information. Once past that and I understood the base line situation, I gave what I personally feel is the best advice for elk hunting. As stated before, this is what I would be doing personally if in his shoes. The thing about advice is you need to only listen, wether you act on it or not is up to you.
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<br>I hope he does get to go the 'big' one. All the best

Thanks rolly I was starting to get frustrated also.I know that hunting for elk will not be an easy thing,all I would like to know is what do you guys recomend for an elk hunt?thanks alot to everyone that posted to me!!

I would say if you are hunting around Helena, or especially the Bitteroot area... forget about road hunting. It may be different in some places of Idaho, but roadhunting is the poorest way to put your tag on an elk anywhere I've been.
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<br>First and foremost, hunt where the elk are. From what I've seen most places, they ain't by roads. Call the MT FWP and get pointers from the local biologist where the elk are at the time of the year you are going to hunt.
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<br>Second... get in shape. Elk hunting is tough, and can be a real shock when you are starting out.
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<br>And yes, some people really do hunt ten miles in and cover 10 or more miles a day on foot in tough country to hunt elk.. and those that put forth that kind of effort are usually the guys who consistantly fill thier tag. The most consistantly successful do-it-themself elk hunters that I know all have a few things in common: they hunt good places, which often can be tough to get to. They cover a lot of ground (either on foot or in the saddle). And they are willing to spend a lot of time.
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<br>And Big Sky... that guy never missed any shots... he never took any.

Guess I misunderstood, sorry my mistake.

After reading all these post, I better stop elk hunting. I have a back so bad that I have to use a TENS Unit on it every day for an hour, My lungs are eaten up by asbestos and I have asthma. In the last 25 years, I think I have not taken an elk in 3 of those years. Over half were bulls. Some nice, some raghorns. Most of the hunts were pack ins. I do have three good mules. I ride to where I hunt, get off and don't go over a mile from the mule. I bet I get into every bit as rugged country as back packers. I can always get the mule to the dead elk or carry run a long rope and pull it to where the mule can walk to. I now hunt with an 06, 220 gr RN . It kills just as fast as any magnum. Fellas, you don't have to kill yourself to shoot elk. All this talk about runnin, packin, etc is crazy. This is suppose to be fun. Every year I meet hunters that went up this ridge, across those two valleys, down that other ridge etc and on and on. They most go home empty handed because they hunt the country too fast. You do have to be mobile. If the elk aren't in the drainage your in, you have to go find them. But you can just about bet that if you pick any north slope, dark timber, that is at least one ridge away from a road, there will be elk in it. As for road hunting, Sh**, your not hunting, you just want to kill something to inflate your ego more. Explain to me what part of hunting it is when you drive down a road, see and elk, get out, load your gun ( if you aren't driving around with it loaded like quit a few), shoot the elk, drive your truck over to it, clean it and take it home. The only thing good about road hunters are that they aren't in the prime elk country and don't screw up my hunting.
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<br>So back to the question. Bring clothes that you hunt whitetail in, layer them, Bring two sets of boots . One for snow, one or dry, two knives, skinning and reg ( a Wyoming knife is good also), small axe, sharpen stone, cord, game bags. Any gun over .270 shooting heavy bullets, a good tent, some type of heat, the best bed you can afford. ( I use an air bed and a good bag). Good food that doesn't change your regular daily diet. (at least 3000 calories /day), Some of those chemical handwarmers, some moist towletts to clean yourself after the latrine. Make arrangements for at least 1 pack animal. (The going rate is about $175/horse to pack out an elk, you need two) If you can walk a good ways you'll be in good enough shape unless you are carrying a 50+ pound pack. Get into the area about 3 days early to get use to elevation and terrain.
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<br>As for packin an elk out on your back. You got to be crazy to do this. Makes about as much sense as carrying a big frying pan in and cookin it there. Hell, why not go out, run around the mountain three times, go home, buy and old holstien milk cow, chase her around until she's overheated, kill her, ,let her lay an hour before cleaning, gut , and drag across the dirt, load her in a truck and take her to the butcher .
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<br>Here's the point, pick an area, have fun. (even if you have to pay to have someone pack you in to a spike camp). Choose your shot for a quick kill, take care of the meat, make arrangements for getting it out ahead of time. Take some good whiskey to use after you are done hunting and the guns are unloaded and put away for the day, a coupla good cigars, and hunting companions that are good friends, hunt as hard as you do, and you can trust with your life.The most important part is the 'have fun". Make some memories and every year add some zeros to the stories.

I guess I did not realize how touchy my advice about jogging and getting is shape would be here. It is still my honest advice. The fella from NY state stated that he had apx $1000 for the event and that he would be with friends that are new arrivals to Helena. Given those two points I do not think that he will be lining up mules or pack horses. That means driving to then foot hunting. Given the season is basicly in Sep-Oct. you will not expect the elk to have moved to the winter range, so they will most likely be at 5000 plus feet ANY place you find them. Also since most people in NYS live at 1000 ft or less there will be a BIG difference in oxygen. Like I said the jogging is not to run hard but build up the lungs and legs. Since jogging is FREE I thought that this would be a good place to start. Regardless of where and how northernredneck hunts, being in shape with good legs and healthly lungs wont get in his way.
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<br>To get a bull during daylight, you will most likely need to dig him out as saddlesore suggest. This does not have to be hard, but it is best done with two to three others that know what you are doing. Basicly you work the cover spots on the slopes slowly, with flankers to each side incase the old boy tries to sneak out. As big as elk are and thier racks, it is down right amazing to see the 'small' spaces and paths these boys take and go. Some good binos do not hurt either.
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<br>The last thing I have to say here is when hunting the rockies on foot, take ONLY what you must, wieght is NOT you friend. In my book an eight pound 30-06 with scope and mag full is far better the the 300 win and 4-14x and loaded up at 10+ pounds. Common sense is your best friend. I hunt because I enjoy it. If it is not for the joy of it, then why are we doing it? Bragging rights never last, and cost per pound of meat IF you do get one is always more then the prime rib in the store.
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<br>I think all have made good points about elk hunting here and I believe northernredneck can decied for himself what will work best for him and his friends in Helena.

Saddlesore, I was thinking of writing a similar post but you beat me to it and said it much better than I could have. IMHO the key is to hunt as hard as you can (whatever that may be) and enjoy yourself. Not to bore you but I have had two back surgeries, one on my right shoulder, two on the left, broken ankle, broken arm and a chipped bone in my knee. Won't even get into the hemmoroids (sp?) etc.. that come with old age.
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<br>The point is I go hunting as often as I can and push myself as much as I can, while still enjoying the hunt. I have no interest in a forced march with a 70 pound pack for 14 hours a day. I do however manage to cover several miles per day bow hunting the Montana mountains and some years bring back an Elk. If an ailment kicks up, I let my healthier friends continue thier hunt and slowly make my way back to camp, at a speed I can handle. Doesn't happen often but when it does I just take it easy and enjoy the scenery. That's how I got my Elk last year. Spotted him on the way back to camp when I could not keep up with a younger hunter and went back and got him the next afternoon. My smile could not have been bigger if I had trekked a hundred miles to get him. (It was about a mile and a half from camp)
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<br>If your up to it, there is no reason you should not cover a lot of ground going after Elk. Don't think though that you have to be an Olympic athelete to be successful. Just do the best you can to get in shape, practice with your rifle, do as much as you reasonably can and most of all, enjoy. Life is too short as it is. TM