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....because that tells the world I hunt. Funnily enough, some of us do not care what the rest of the world thinks about this particular snippet. And believe me when I say that if I could con Holland & Holland, and Purdy into furnishing myself with a couple of their finer wares for free.......I would!
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Good post! A rifle doesn't have to be expensive to me; it just has to be "good".And that can run the gamut in price.To me, "expensive" is not always "good". It takes more than shear cost to make a rifle, factory or custom,great. But if there is a big problem somehow with perfect inletting,handsome,tasteful,highly functional stocks, stocks that fit you well and help you shoot better,mechanical perfection,great barrels and accuracy,and good looks,and superior workmanship in a rifle, I'd like someone to tell me what it is......  That said,hunting with a really nice wood stocked custom rifle is a special treat,not so much for just its'looks,but performance.When I got my first one,I noticed the way it handled in comparison to the generic factory models, admired the sharper, crisper,workmanship,how it shot and grouped,and noticed that all the minor annoyances that come along with a "green" factory sporter were sort of "absent".I also watched how reliable it was.... Not that you can't have all this in a factory sporter,but you might sift through a few before you get one. I've got both types right now;if they work, they work. As to getting them scratched up, no big deal....the same guy who built it can make it look like brand new all over again. I've stuffed a Griffin and Howe 338 into saddle scabbards and dragged it around elk mountains;froze a Goens 270 solid in freezing rain and snow;and knocked an elegant Kevin Campbell 280 Mauser around a good bit on mule deer and bear hunts.None were worse for the wear.... For a couple of years I owned Bob Chatfield-Taylors 270 that was built for him by Lenard Brownell ( for those under 40, BC-T was a gun nut, a buddy of O'Connor and Bill Ruger,a gunwriter and former AZ rancher). The old rifle was scratched, dinged up,and blueing worn and had hunted widely from Wyoming to sheep country in Canada,and to Africa.That it was also clearly superior in every single way to any factory rifle in looks, fit,workmanship,and mechanical perfection, was too obvious to ignore. I have also owned factory-stock sporters that were as trustworthy and reliable as an expensive custom.....but I don't kid myself that they are in the same class as a good custom.YMMV. Well said Bob. I've used bone factory sporters up to high end expensive customs and everything in between. Bottom line for me is my rifle MUST work flawlessly in ALL conditions ALL the time. If someone is a serious hunter they will want the best equiptment they can get. I have factory and custom rifles. My go to rifles are now all customs or semi custom in some way. As Bob said "I don't kid myself". I want the odds in my favor. 163bc
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Funny it's all a matter of perspective. I grew up when you could buy a SMLE for $10 off the back of a magazine. Matter of fact that was the first centerfire rifle I ever owned. To me a Remington 700, Win 70 ,Ruger 77 are not "cheap" rifles. Granted they don't cost $5000 but they are not cheap. I even have a stevens 200 and a vanguard and I don't consider them "cheap" but more of an economy model such as a 1962 chevy biscayne compared to an imphala (model 700). To me cheap is more of a quality term while economy or value is a financial term. None the less I see the $5000 rifles much like I do a porsche or bently nice to look at but not very practical and certainly not functionally superior to a regular sedan for use. To me a Remington 700 class rifle with a $300 scope is all the rifle anyone needs from a functional standpoint.
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I don't like to abuse my equipment even if it didn't cost much. DItto.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,174 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,174 Likes: 2 |
Got me to thinking about my cheap Remington 700 chambered in 7mm Rem. mag and my cheap Leupold Rifleman scope. I shoot 3 shot- 5/8" groups off of a rest at 200 yards, 206 to be ever so precise-
I wondered how many people spent less than a grand on their setup and killed more animals than our "civilized" rich brothers? Now I'm not here to pick an argument, but it seems less money spent makes for more animals on the ground. I shoot just fine without the fine walnut stock and all that rich crap. If you have money to piss away, by all means keep pissing it away. I like to shoot my guns, get them dirty and scratched up because that tells the world I hunt. If it's not all beat to hell, it hasn't been used- just my thoughts, Anyone else thought about this? You make a good point.. The rifle I always grab to go deer hunting with is my onld M70 PF in .264WM.. I think I paid about $125-150 for it back in '73.. It's still in 95% condition.. The good ones that I collect are not hunted with - just left to appreciate and help with retirement when it's time to sell. I only have two customs of my own - I built myself - and I have little time to use 'em.. That said, there are those who appreciate a finely built rifle clad in superior walnut and I bet most actually use them - since it's what they're built for.. It's all just a personal decision made by each individual owner.. 
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 Likes: 1 |
How about a little of both? Wazoo custom rifle ( borrowed-not bought  )Coulda bought a new truck for what this one costs... ![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/021_21-1.jpg) Or a used Interarms Mk X I took a rasp to and invested $200 in.. ![[Linked Image]](http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/thmsbrownlee/020_20-1.jpg) One worked as well as the other...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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I have rifles built because it is my hobby/passion and wouldn't consider it pissing away money as i can recoup some of my money and have fun with it at the same time.
Now smoking,drinking and buying a new car that is pissing away money in my mind.
gene
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Still have, & use a 700 in 270 that I bought back in the early 70's while I was still in school. I thought it was a pretty expensive rifle at the time.
I have taken very good care of it, tho' it has several thousand rounds down the tube. Blueing shows some honest wear, and it is wearing it's third stock. Travel, horses, mountains, and a lot of miles on foot seem to take their toll every now and then. Did I mention a lot of foot miles?
The original scope was a Widefield 3x9 that had to go back to Redfield for some work at least twice. Sorry to see them go down the tubes as that scope was a great piece of optics. The rifle currently wears a Leupold Euro. I was curious about this 30mm phenomena.
There is a worse looking rifle in the rack. it is an older Win mod 70 in 375 that originally belonged to my uncle. Still functions perfectly. He thought of it as very expensive when he bought it sometime in the 50's. I don't use that much any more as it just doesn't seem necessary. However, I think it might go to Newfoundland if I can get up there for another moose hunt.
Both guns have some stories to tell.
Temporarily, the 270 is wearing a 4th stock as I have set it up with a kid sized stock for my grandsons to shoot with reduced loads. Accuracy is still way better than it needs to be.
As some guys have noted, expensive is a totally subjective term.
Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years.
It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone.....
Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
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Most of my productive hunting years I shot military mausers or military Lee Enfields. I understand those of you who say you buy top drawer because of reliability and function. That is why I used the rifles I did.
That is why I had a full custom bench rest rifle made for me when I got serious about that.
I also understand the joy of a beautiful stock, or the desire of a particular calibre, of fulfilling pleasure in the selection of a particular rifle for whawtever the reasons.
I think that we all fulfill individual desires whenever we buy a rifle. Those desires differ amongst each of us, but really are the driving force in selection. I have a gun case full of odd ball chamberings because they appeal to me. Buy what you will, it is really all the same motivator.
Randy formerly posting as medicman
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OP
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Posts: 297 |
Okay, I did read every post. And no it's not class envy. One more thing, what's up with the penis comment? I posted this as a Rifle subject, you must have penis on the brain- just sayin.
As far as pizzing away money, I have found that a 400.00 rifle kills them just as dead as a 5000.00 rifle.
As far as the comment on owning only one rifle and not being a good shot. Well, I'll tell ya, I have just one deer rifle and use it for elk, deer, moose and bear. Most "hunters" only shoot a box or two of shells a year. Personally, I shoot my 7 mag more than most. No BS, I shoot about 10,000 rounds thru it every year. I'm at the range every week, sometimes up to 4 days a week. Total rounds at my home for a year is close to 100,000. My wife shoots as well as my son. Most of those rounds are .22, due to the cost of ammo.
This has been an interesting topic and I appreciate every comment, whether it's been positive or negative, this is the USA and I love to have differing opinions. It's what makes our Country so great! Just wanted to Thank you for responding, no matter what your opinion was.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,955
Campfire Outfitter
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I think most people here are gun nuts who hunt. With few being pure hunters who think of their rifles as tools. Think you hit it pretty square there. A good test- you see your father in law, or friend's boss, pull a shotgun\rifle\lever\pistol out from behind their seat. At best it was kept in a soft case that shows permanant creases in the fabric and a tear near the zipper.. You instantly spot rust, they don't inspect the gun just try to force open the breech as they yack to whomever they are telling how great this weapon is, wihtout seeing if it is already loaded they look for the half crushed box of ammo thats been wedged under their seat for years and have difficulty loading or extracting and misplacing their half finished fifth beer....who of us by now isn't on the edge of their seat cringing, running for cover, or offering to fix it - feeling like the poor "tool" deserves better, this thing is like Moses in a basket helplessly floating in a river of crocodiles to us and we just have to save it?? Um...did I go over the top?
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of
. Confucius
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...did I go over the top? No you did not.....but I made the decision some years ago to grit my teeth and walk the other way when meeting tossers that should not be allowed to breath my air let alone own anything nice. Now when said tosser asks what rifle I own I tell them it is a long one, and scopes are black ones......really helps with frustration and the urge to throttle others.
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Campfire Tracker
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10,000 rounds a year thru a 7mm rem mag a year
whew that is saying something their
gene
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
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NativeBowhunter -
First, I agree that it doesn�t take a fancy or expensive rifle to put game on the ground at normal hunting ranges. A battlefield Mauser pickup that shoots 2-3� groups at 100 will do just fine for most work. These days we happen to be blessed with well-built, accurate rifles that are fairly inexpensive, both new and used. Of all my rifles, only one cost me over $1,000 for the rifle itself and most were less than half that. The average is probably around $350 including new and used both. On top I generally run with scopes in the 150-$250 range, with a couple of exceptions at either end. My most expensive scopes are the two used Leupold Vari-X III�s I purchased used.
That said, I disagree that �less money spent makes for more animals on the ground�. What makes for game on the ground is a reasonably accurate rifle chambered for a cartridge suitable to the task, adequate preparation (practice), and time in the field with that particular firearm.
When the range gets longer, the hills get higher or the weather gets wetter, more there is plenty of room there for improvements to the firearm � trigger, stock, bedding, glass, etc. These don�t detract from the firearm�s ability to put game on the ground unless done wrong.
Like you, my guns carry �character marks� from their trips afield, no matter how well I try to treat them. That�s why I don�t want $1,000 glass when $150 will do, fancy walnut when plain or synthetic will do, and so on. That is not to say I wouldn�t love to have a custom rifle with a fancy Circassian Walnut stock, Zeiss glass, Jewel trigger, the best barrel I could buy and fancy engraving and scroll work. I wouldn�t hunt the mud with it, but that is not to say it wouldn�t hunt at all. Kind of like my Remington 870 shotgun � I went with synthetic instead of a Browning BPS in walnut because of the mud and rain and snow I�d been hunting in with my old shotgun.
As to �pissing away money�, it isn�t pissing it away if gets you what you want. Some people have more expendable income than others and can afford to spend more money on things they want, but I doubt most of them would consider the money �pissed away�, whether you do or not.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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I guess I chose the wrong words, my apologies. Its not pissing away money- guess I meant spending money like water. I mean, if that makes you happy by all means do it. Get what makes You happy. My rifle isn't an expensive job, just a simple 700 ADL with a Timney trigger set at 2 lbs. It makes me happy and sore to shoot it as much as I do. I could have put a top of the line Swarovski scope on it. But in order for me to do that, I'd be saving the rest of my life and the rifle would never get used. I guess that's my point.
No attacks intended in previous posts.
And Yes, I put 10,000 rounds a year through that rifle. Midway loves me. I Have a friend that reloads shells for me. I pay him for the materials needed.
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No BS, I shoot about 10,000 rounds thru it every year. I'm at the range every week, sometimes up to 4 days a week. Total rounds at my home for a year is close to 100,000. My wife shoots as well as my son. Most of those rounds are .22, due to the cost of ammo.
Fine, so you are re-barrelling that you-beaut 700 at least three times a year (and probably more if you can consistently manage 5/8" at 200 yards), so lets be generous and say your rifle is in your hands for ten months of the year which would have you shooting 1000 rounds a month out of your you-beaut 700 (250 rounds a week) at an average of lets say three days a week, which would have you expending 83 rounds a day out of your 700.....AND you have the time to shoot another 100-odd rounds out of your other rifles on those very same days. So, you do not work because it interferes with your range time, you are independently wealthy (to keep up with the re-barrelling for yourself and your family) and you spend a lot of time hunting...so much so that you consider yourself a hunter rather than a range shooter. Boy, you are one lucky fellow....aren't you?
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,220
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,220 |
Cost is a relative thing.
For a guy with a family who makes $50K per year, a rifle that costs in excess of $1K is a luxury. For a guy with a family who makes $500K per year, a rifle that costs in excess of $1K is lunch $$$.
Even my less expensive Marlin, Rossi, and Savage firearms are respected, so I make an effort not to get them dirty, not to scratch them up, and surely don't beat them to hell. I have truck guns that, to me, are just tools and spend most of their time in a case behind the seat of a truck or in a scabbard on an ATV, but they generally get wipped off and sprayed down with WD-40 if they are used.
Jeff
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10,000 rounds a year through your 7mm mag? Really? I just don't buy that. I guess you still shooting the original barrel after all these years?....laffin.
Dink
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My, your understanding of math is something to be appreciated! Could you please help me with my checkbook? I don't think I'm intelligent enough to figgur it out. Yes I have barrels worked on and I do hunt. As far as working, no I don't work. I used to, but now I don't. Yes, I'm one lucky [bleep]! I'm not wealthy by any means. My wants and needs are met with a little left over. Sounds like you are jealous - laughing my azz off! You just wish you were in my shoes- LOL!!!!!!! No BS, I shoot about 10,000 rounds thru it every year. I'm at the range every week, sometimes up to 4 days a week. Total rounds at my home for a year is close to 100,000. My wife shoots as well as my son. Most of those rounds are .22, due to the cost of ammo.
Fine, so you are re-barrelling that you-beaut 700 at least three times a year (and probably more if you can consistently manage 5/8" at 200 yards), so lets be generous and say your rifle is in your hands for ten months of the year which would have you shooting 1000 rounds a month out of your you-beaut 700 (250 rounds a week) at an average of lets say three days a week, which would have you expending 83 rounds a day out of your 700.....AND you have the time to shoot another 100-odd rounds out of your other rifles on those very same days. So, you do not work because it interferes with your range time, you are independently wealthy (to keep up with the re-barrelling for yourself and your family) and you spend a lot of time hunting...so much so that you consider yourself a hunter rather than a range shooter. Boy, you are one lucky fellow....aren't you?
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Dink a ling, Naw- you ain't even worth my time, LOL!!!!!
TTFNMF's!!! I'm off to the range, enjoy work and that ball sack lunch~ I'm sure the carpet under your bosses desk is quite comfortable on your knees... LOL!!!!!
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