Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats what barrel length for 25/284 tactical

i am in the begining stages of a tactical 25/284 already have the action and stock as well as the scope picked out. my question is what contour, twist and barrel length. my thoughts are

contour lilja number 8
twist 1 in 10
length 22 - 24 inches

i think i like the 8 contour, and 1 in 10 twist, but the length is what is getting me. i don't want to give up velocity so i think that the 24 will be the way i go what are your thoughts...........blake

Most tactical guys are buildig on the #7 contour or even a little lighter. Mine are built on #7's and are of enough heft to provide easy, stable shooting, yet light enough to be mobile. You're not going to need much weight to tame a 25-284.

The 25-284 is going to haul a$$ in just about any barrel length. My own preference for a heavy rifle is 24", but I wouldn't be scared of a 22" 25-284, or even a 21 for that matter.

thanks CAS i have not looked at the #7 but i will take a look at it. i think i will stick with the 24" length on this one thanks again......blake

24" If you don't like it you can shorten it but it's tough to stretch it.
Edit - #7 would be plenty in that caliber.
Dave

I also would go #7, but in a 26" length. Since this is a tactical rifle and won't be hauled around on your shoulder up the mountains. The extra velocity won't hurt and you sure won't notice a couple of ounces on the nose. 10 twist is perfect and handles everything. What stock and scope are you going with? RL 22 and 100-120 grain VLD bullets ROCK at long range. I got a serious hankering for a long range .25-284 myself....especially after playing with one recently at 1000 yards. It was loaded with Berger 115 grain VLD's. They got there fast and accurately, especially in the 15 mph head wind. I liked it a TON better than the BR style 6.5-284 and the 6mm-284 I was also shooting. Flinch

going to use an a-5 tactical and a 6.5x20x50mm long range scope, i think stick said it the best the turrets on those scopes are the grail. i have a 4.5x14x50mm right now and i love it, but i think i want some more magnification. anyway as soon as i get the last custom paid off i will start this one should only be a month or so.........blake

A 25-284 will be a barrel burner. Krieger told me to expect an accuracy life of around 1200 rounds in my 6.5x284, and a 25 cal will be less. However, Krieger says they tend to be on the conservative side when giving barrel life estimates. I am hoping my 6.5 will last 1500, but I will shoot it until it quits grouping well. Anyway, you might want to have two barrels made and get the tools for switching the barrel. I wish I had a second barrel made for my 6.5x284.

Interestingly, 25 cals don't seem that popular in 1000 yd BR. I am not sure what bullets are available, but when the BC starts to get less than mid .5s the chamberings get less common. Sierra makes a 115 grain 6mm bullet that has about the same BC as the 142 grain 6.5 Having said that, Palma guys shoot the shot out of the target at 1000 yds with a bullet with an even lower BC. I honestly don't know what the trend is in tactical shooting, but I do know the requirements are different.

I am using a Nightforce 8-32x56 in Nightforce rings and 20 moa bases. The scope is awesome (IE better than Leupold) but it weighs something like 2.25 lbs in the rings. If you were to use a Nightforce I think you'd want less power, but I also think it would be hard to beat a Leu 6.5x20x50. When I build a second 1000 yd rifle (in 30 WSM), I will put my Nighforce on it and then get a Leu 8.5x24x50 for my current rifle. I find as the temp heats up I wind up setting the scope between 18 and 24 power. I only used 32X when it was cool outside.

painless,
You are going to LOVE that stock. It is my most favoritest heavy stock. I have one now, and another due in shortly.

That stick is going to be wicked.

i can't wait to give rick the go ahead. it is going to be a rockish themed rifle so as it develops i will post some pics.......blake

Pay no mind to Blaine on his "barrel burner" comment. That is TOTAL hogwash on the 1,200 round count. Mine is at 1,200 now....actually a campfire member bought it and the throat and leade are as smooth as a babies butt. It still shoots well under 1/2 MOA and shoots better than I do. No throat erosion....no nothing. The 6.5-.284 might be more popular in BR, but that doesn't mean it is better. The opinion of "best" round for BR changes every couple of years (check the records). Blaine just burned the throat out of a 6.5 in 265 rounds and again blames the round and barrel steel. Funny how there are many thousands of BR shooters shooting the same matches, same barrels, same cartridges as Blaine, yet they don't have the "throat erosion" and barrel problems that Blaine does.

Blaine, when Kreiger talks about barrel life of 1,200 rounds. They are talking BR life, not total life. If a BR rifle starts to rutinely drop shots consistently out a tenth of an inch, it is considered shot out by BR standards. That barrel will last another thousand rounds and still shoot sub 1/2 MOA. It isn't BR standards, but fabulous for long range and varminting. Build the .25 and enjoy it for several thousand rounds at long range. Flinch

Keep in mind that competition is generally a bit tougher on barrels as well. How many 25-284 hunting rifles will have 48-88 rounds put through them in half a day without any cleaning. And be shooting strings of 10-15 rounds in a matter of 5-10 minutes? Or for that matter, 10 rounds in 50 seconds, if you are shooting rapid seated...

Scott

i am of the school that rifles are made to be shot not gawked at. the rangemaster at my club told me i have logged more hours and shots in a month than most people shoot all year. if the throat wears out so be it they make barrels everyday. also i have put 1500 rounds through at least three of my rifles with factory tubes and warm loads, they all still shoot under 1 moa..........blake

Flinch,

So now you know more than Krieger. I said up front that I was talking about accuracy life, and I also said I would keep shooting it until it quit grouping well.

Real rifle shooters erode the throats on their rifles. If they deny this, they are living in a fantasy world of ignorance. I did not burn out the throat in the 6.5, nor did I ever say I did. I am exactly on track according to Krieger, the folks you seem to think you are smarter than.

BTW, I shot a 5.25" 5-shot group at 1000 yds last Sat, and that was in very windy conditions. How many 5" groups at 1000 yds have you shot in competition? How many 6" groups?

I am really beginning to question if you know half of what you say you do. I suspected this before I started competition shooting, but so far, EVERYTHING I have learned about barrel life, shooting, and reloading for competition has pretty much been the opposite of your "expert" opinion.............

Painless,

Reagrdless of what Flinch claims, the more overbore a chambering the shorter the barrel life is. This is a well known and understood fact of shooting. I am one of the few guys that actually tracks that sort of thing.

In the world of competition BR shooting, the big three barrel makers are: Krieger, Hart, and Shilen. Krieger has been producing highly accurate barrels for a long time now and their reputation is excellent. When they speak, they are worth listening to. Admittedly, they are on the conservative side when quoting barrel life. Alos, how hard you push the load, how cool you keep the barrel, and how well you clean are all factors in the accuracy life of a barrel.

No one can say for sure how long a barrel will last. One competitior I shoot with says after 500 rounds he expects to readjust seating depth. Right now my 6.5x284 has 488 rounds through it. My load is not hot. The throat has moved .022" in that time. It is expected bulelt seating depth will increase by .010" the first couple hundred rounds. This initial throat movement is thought to be due to the rifling rounding off it's sharp edge.

With my 6.5x284, after 205 rounds the throat had moved .010". For the next 150 rounds the throat stayed, then jumped another .010" in the next 70. Kriger said this is how--in their words--a 'hot' chambering erodes the throat. It is not in an linerar manner, it is inconsistent. Usually, several rounds will be fired with no movement than it will make a jump of a few thousandths.

Initially, my rifle liked the bullet seated in the lands. That depth was 2.525" to the bullet's ogive. It still likes that seating depth, even though the throat has moved .022" urther away. I expect eventually I'll have to change bullet seating depth so this rifle will keep it's accuracy.

Now, BR shooting--whatever the range--requires extreme accuracy and they are shot a lot. However, a tactical rifle also needs to be highly accurate and is shot a lot, so much of the same loading and shooting techniques apply. Also, I am not so sure there is a huge difference in accuracy between a good tactical rifle and a 1000 yd BR gun.

For competition shooting, I consider the barrel a throw away item. When it quits shooting well I will replace it. That is the price of competing. I expect a barrel on a big game hunting rifle to last longer. I am not so sure about a tactical rifle.

My point in all this was to make sure you were not suprised if after 1200-1500 rounds you can't get your rifle to shoot well anymore. Now, I am assuming you'd like this to be highly accurate and will shoot it a lot. I hope the barrel lasts 2000 rounds, but when weighed against the vast experience of the competitive shooting world, odds are not good that 25-284 will last 2000 rounds with the kind of accuracy you want. You need to be aware of that.

I am also VERY serious about having two barrels made, especially in a competition rifle that you are expecting to replace the barrel on in a year. Lead times of the good rifle builders are often very long, and changing a barrel is easy if the rifle is set up that way.

Regardless, good luck and let us know how it goes!

Not sure your intended use for this rifle, but in my profession, a tactical rifle is one that is deployed to use against people who need to die. "Tactical" is a term loosely used to mean that something is ideally suited for this Law Enforcement purpose. A 24" barrel is anything BUT tactical. 14" is about right on an entry gun. I sniper has a lot more leeway, but 20" is about the limit in reasonable portability. The only disadvantage to the shorter barrels in muzzle blast. It will be ferocious in a 25/284 with a 20" barrel...

just my 2 cents

Well, I long range varmint hunt with my 7mm mags and .25-284, so I guess I don't shoot enough to burn a barrel out. Heck, 50 rounds an hour in 90 degree heat ain't nothing for a sporter weight barrel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Blaine, you still using those cardboard shims on that scope? I find it funny that you do one BR match and are suddenly an expert at it. I hope precious few people listen to you and actually go to BR. com or some other web sight and get the real scoop on BR. You are SOOOO far off the mark. You crack me up. Oh, and you are just figuring out that Sierra bullets shoot? Where the heck you been old timer????? Riding around on the turnip truck again? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Wow....one whole group under 7 inches. I am still not impressed. Let me see you do it consistently. How many YEARS has it taken you to get that ONE group????? Your idea of high wind is what....5 mph? My last 1,000 yard group was 3.5 in an 15 mph cross wind....with a borrowed rifle. I don't punch paper, so I don't care if I can do it again or not. After all, who cares???? Of course, you probably fly an F-15 and bomb Iraq in your spare time. Sheesh, talk about a fantasy life.

No, I don't know more than Krieger, Hart and Shilen. Never claimed to, but you are taking their information WAY out of context. Please get your excrement together before posting it as gospel. I feel much better now that that is off my chest. I don't see any of your scores posted on the match results either. Could your actual scores be another fantasy? Flinch

a tactical rifle to means a rifle that can be employed for any number of uses. from smoking cats at long range off the back porch to picking off targets at 1000 yards. it is just a term. the 24" barrel is more for velocity than anything else. also the barrel length on a 50 cal is longer than 20"s and i consider it a tactical rifle. it is just a term used to describe any number of different configurations of a rifle. flinch and blaine, you guys know way more about this stuff than me, i just like pulling the trigger. if the barrel and throat burn out so be it..........blake

Flinch,

First off, I was a little harsh in my last post to you and for that I apologize. I wasn't feeling to good yesterday and I did not exhibit the retstraint and good humor I should have. However, it's not like you haven't had this comin' for some time you tiny-minded wiper of bottoms.......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I haven't used any more cardboars shims, though there is still merit to that idea. I think I just need a higher grade of cardboard.............. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I did not gain this skill "all of a sudden", I have had it for a quite a while and the competition shooting is just proving it. Just ask the guys I shoot with. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> They will tell you straight up about my good and bad performances. Then again, I never said I was an expert, just better than you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ...........The real experts are the guys I am shooting with, though if I told you how the top shooter goes about handloading you'd fall out of your chair laughing...........

I have always known about Sierra bullets. I have taken 8 deer and one hog with them, as well as having shot up a couple thousand of them. I used them to diagnose bedding problems in my fussy, skinny #4 barrel, as well as diagnose scope problems. I just don't like 'em so much for game, and it is with reluctance I am using them in my 300.

I have shot four matches, In my last two matches my best groups have been 7 & 1/8, 6 & 5/8, 6 & 5/16, 5 & 1/4. My best agg (avg of three 5-shot groups) so far is 7.92, which was good for #4 out of 16 shooters. The previous match I was #3 in agg out of 10 shooters. I have one tie for first place in score. I was on track for a very good finish last match, until I pulled a rookie mistake and made a scope adjustment I shouldn't have. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Let's see, I guess it took me three matches to start shooting 7 1/8" and better........Of course, I have posted all this in the Competition Shooting forum.

Consistent wind is no big deal, but gusts between 5 and 15+ mph are a real bear. It is routine for guys to be shooting in the 4s or 5s and then a change in conditions put EVEYONE's next shot 8-12" away.

Now I am a little skeptical of your 3.5" group, but I guess I have to take your word for it. It it could have been a one or two shot group............Of course with me, you don't have to take my word for it as full results are published by the club after each match and the agg and score totals can be found in the NBRSA monthly magazine. I also have the targets..........

And yes, I FULLY believe you shot your best with a borrowed rifle, because there is no way you could do that with a rifle you worked up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am not misunderstanding Krieger. The are up front with their figures being on the conservative side, but the first theing the guy told me was how much of a barrel burner a 6.5x284 is. Accuracy life is accuracy life. If the barrel would just start gently opening it's groups up, then yes, you could shoot it past it's competition accuracy life for hunting applications. However, if they start throwing fliers, then I don't want the barrel anymore for any application. All I want is for guys getting the chamberings that are known for short barrel life to be ready if it happens. Each barrel is different, and the only way to tell is to shoot it.

Aside from all the poking each other in the eye, we do see things a bit differently about barrel life. I will not keep a hunting rifle barrel that is rapidly eroding the throat. In all honesty, I have only three cases of excessive throat erosion. Unfortunately, I am not alone I this experience. I want a hunting barrel to be un-fussy enough to shoot premium hunting bullets consistently. I am not impressed if a rifle shoots Sierra well, only irritated if it doesn't.

Nothing pisses me off more to shoot 5-10 groups in the .7 or better range, have a 1-2" flier, then have it go back to shooting .7s again for a while, than have another 1-2" flier. Eliminating a barrel with a rapidly eroding throat get's rid of one potential cause. Further, I do not want to finally settle on a load about the time the barrel quits shooting. I don't have that much time, and I refuse to waste it on a bad barrel.

Painless,

I doubt Flinch and I know any more about it than you. More likey we are just better at typing....... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

One thing to consider?? Get the slightly longer barrel[ 24-25"] and, when the throat goes south for the winter, have your gunsmith set the shoulder back .200 or so and reset headspace. This is what I did on my "working gun" in Hawaii. It was/is a Rem. 700 264 Win Mag with a McGowan #2 barrel. Used it on Goats/sheep and it went a long ways. Even at the end of it`s days with a good cleaning I could count on the first two shots being well under an inch. The third-fourth?? Who knows. When the throat began to affect accuracy I set the barrel back .400 and rechambered. I cut the threads all the way to the shoulder on the initial threading instead of leaving the area under the removable lug smooth and this gave me an additional .185-.190 of threads to work with on the set-back. This gave a virtually new barrel and cost the goats/pigs dearly. Now it has a new McGowan XX and life is good.

Aloha, Mark