Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Let's be honest...

Read up to page 6 and got bored. I work in LE and have had my issued G22 out on numerous occasions. Its not my first choice in weapons, but its what Uncle Sugar says I HAVE to pack, so its on my belt every day. That being said, I feel pretty confident that unless I'm ambushed, I know I can get the gun out of the holster quicker than the majority of "range rats", and the instinctive shooting drills forced upon me for years will up the odds that my bullets will be causing some damage. The vulnerable part for me is when I'm off shift going for groceries, movie, etc... I've thought long and hard about my concealed weapon choice, and it comes down to one point for me: What will I ALWAYS have with me?
I own numerous weapons that would work, but the act of putting them on and concealing them is often more work than my lazy butt is willing to do when the odds of getting in a fight are so low. For that reason alone, I picked up a P-3AT when they came on the market and got a belt clip for it, as well as a pocket holster. Its as small as my wallet, and goes with me EVERYWHERE I go. I can't say I would have the discipline to pack a larger weapon 100% of the time. I would much rather have a 380 on me than a 45 in my truck.
For perspective, I live in a rural MT county that has less people than most "towns". Two summers ago we were finishing up dinner when my wife commented that she was making brownies and some ice cream would sure go well with them. I grabbed my 4yo son and headed down to the local store to get some vanilla. While paying my tab at the counter, a lady ran into the store screaming that the gas station across the street was being held up. These things happen so rarely that packing a firearm would seem senseless in most peoples minds. Wearing shorts and a t-shirt, I still had the 380 clipped to me, and felt confident I could protect the young life that was given to me, as well as my own. I know for a fact I would not have been carrying that summer evening if my only back-up would have been something large enough to require a holster/belt. The perp never came across the street, and was apprehended, but knowing I could protect the lives around me at the time if he had came in, reinforced my commitment to always have a gun.
You can blow all the hot air you want across a keyboard, but I feel pretty certain that most, if not all, of you have found yourselves in shorts, flip-flops, and a t-shirt on a hot summer day with no weapon at your disposal. Check in w/ me any day of the year...on my boat catching fish, going to get the mail, out stoking the furnace, feeding horses, etc... and I'll be armed. It may be a "pea shooter" in your opinion, but it's 100% of the time on me, and I shoot the snot out of it and know I can put one through your noggin if you force me to make that decision.

Nah, Q - I never wear flip-flops. "Victim shoes", ya know.

Good post.

I've had some words with Dink, don't like how he carries himself thru communication on here and it's a bit troubling to me to see guys that have a bit of the "tude" to know they are LEO. But I always try to give some margin of error by this mode of communication, I don't always get my point across or come across as I like to think of myself either. Who knows? If we knew each other in real life, we might find we have enough in common to be friends.


with that said, I can't fault his decision to carry two weapons as part of his off duty attire. We're shaped by our experiences, while I've seen nada to indicate Dink has made claims to actually being in a gunfight, he's around folks that have been on a regular basis both LEO and civilian. He also teaches and attends many firearm classes it seems.


guys that backpack hunt regularly or spend mucho time in the woods know how important it is to carry more than 1 type of firestarter. It happens very seldom that you EVER need more than your primary firestarter. But if it EVER happens that your primary has given up the ghost and you need a F'ing fire RIGHT NOW, for survival, even us ounce counters are glad we had backups.

for the casual, once or twice a year hiker, I imagine they feel perfectly comfortable taking a nature hike with just a bic lighter.

not me, when I step off the pavement (hell who am I kidding, even on pavement) I'll have more than one bic lighter, in the woods I'll also have a striker system and mag shavings and vaseline soaked cotton balls and a bit of innertube.

we're shaped by our environment and our experiences.

if you spent a large time of your work day discussing and preparing for self defense or the application of force to defend others as LEO's do. I'd say more than a few of us would opt for extra magazine and secondary weapon.


just think how many of you are comfortable carrying daily?

yeah it was a learning curve, but over time you found a holster or a system that was comfortable and workable for you and eventually guys that carry it's as uncomfortable to NOT carry as it is to forget your wallet or keys or cell phone.

but to most folks that don't carry regularly, the idea of hanging a 20 oz. piece of metal and polymer off their body seems strange or foreign. Most of their responses would be "why do you even need a gun?"

where here I see many express the sentiment "why do you need two guns?"

for those of us that are self sufficient, the idea of why do you need a gun is simple. If my family is in harms way, I don't have time to wait for a cop.

and truthfully if the chit ever hits the fan, we'd all prefer to be packing an 870, but it's not practical. So more than a few around here have developed a system to carry something.

for me self defense calibers begin with a .4, but that's just me, I don't sneer at a guy that chooses a 9mm


the next best thing to having a gun of sufficient caliber IS to have two in case Murphy is working overtime that day.

in hunting it's bullet placement
bullet placement
bullet placement
choosing the correct bullet to place
platform for delivering said bullet
and then caliber ime.


for self defense imo it's ; mindset and awareness

proficiency with your platform

bullet selection

caliber


the stakes are way so much higher on self defense that imo there's not as much gap between the criteria even though I typed it that way.

after those things are taken care of, the next logical step is to have a second magazine for your primary and/or a second handgun

We took a trip to Florida a long time ago, when car jacking was the rage down there at that time, took my toddler daughter, my pregnant wife, my mom and my stepdad.

I had a .45 acp, 3 spare mags, and a .38 snub nose

some folks would say I was paranoid, but I see it as prepared.


but then I try to do that with all aspects of my life, with food stuffs, gasoline and heating fuel(s), finances and insurance. It's amusing to my family, till the chit hits the fan, that's when a Boy Scout turns into a hero for those that are under his protection.

every year I renew my house fire insurance and we've never had a house fire. but it's there just in case.

that's how Dink is with his secondary piece imo, it's there just in case.

it's insurance that you only pay for once, I love that type of insurance.

we laffed last night as we went to inspect and meet a painter at the location for my wife's new biz. Electricians had turned the power off, no lights. I happened to have 3 flashlights on my person. A small one that stays on my person, one in my vest and another in my coat.

might even been a firearm close by, or two or three, maybe.

Fact is... ALL handgun calibers, at least ones you'd carry... are inadequate. You want a quality short range defense weapon... get a freakin' Shot Gun. Shootability and Reliability are paramount... caliber is about 8th on the list of considerations for a carry/defense handgun.

8th, really?

You recommend going out to diner with your with while carrying a shotgun?

I had it at number 4

to each his own

All I have to be is less inadequate than the other guy.

Good post!
A few years ago two guys were working in a gunshop in north Murderapolis. I was a charter member of Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance. So were they. They both carried openly if I remember correctly. Some gentlemen from Chicago came in and killed both of them and stole 100 handguns which ended up in Chicago in the black market. My point is that these guys were armed and considered themselves avid handgunners. I would say situational awareness
plays as big a part as fast draw techniques or caliber of weapon.

Sorry, but I have to ask, why didn't you go over and intervene?

I do too........extremely interesting & enlightening reading.




You are absolutely correct.........& that's what generated the study to develop & change the ammo used by the FBI

Caliber & power is important in a carry gun as is the ammo, if you have to ever use it & expect positive results.

Little, light bullets don't easily penetrate leather or other heavy clothing & reach the vitals.

MM

Depends on the restaurant.

Really????????

Would you be willing to take a couple of my 230 gr hydrashoks mid-chest at 30 feet or so?

While I agree that I'd rather have a shotgun & have seen the results of that on heads & legs, too, the average bad guy can't take many major round hits to center body mass either.

MM

Truth in that.

Small gun's better than no gun especially if you can shoot it well; unfortunately most can't, including most LEO's.

Lived with 2, hung out with a bunch, shot with a bunch more, & I'd say you're in the minority.

Federal & military types in protection or security, I've found to be quite another story.

MM

I have a story about a florida cop that was a great pistol shot. One night he entered a trailer and in the hallway stood a turd with a gun. The cop fired two 45 caliber 230 grain hydrashoks into the turds chest. Right between the nipples. In fact both bullets entered the same hole and one exited to the left of the spine and one exited to the right of spine. The cop lowered his pistol to the ready position to check the situation (trained to do so). The turd fired back breaking the cops leg causing the cop to fall down in the hallway. The turd then walked up to cop and planted one in the side of his head. The turd ran out of the trailer and died in the yard.

Still wanna bet on those two shots?

Dink

Shoot until the threat is neutralized is the best advice, IMHO.

Not to belabor the point, but yes.

Always an exception to the norm if you look long enough.

You want to be the guinea pig for me to test on?

Thought not.........

MM

MontanaMan my point is if you think two rounds of 45 will always work that kind of thinking will get you killed.

Most bad guys just don't give it up that easy. They know alot of turds that have been shot and lived and are not worried about being shot. In there own minds they are bullet proof.

I have info on gunfights were the 22 and 380 worked to perfection and ones where the mighty 45 and 357 "failed" to stop the threat.

If you think any pistol round is a good man stopper you would be wrong. The only reason for carrying a pistol is because its the only gun you will have with you when you need it not because its the best tool for the job.

Dink

A proper defensive caliber handgun is a good stopper. People have survived multiply hits from rifles and shotguns to continue shooting and/or killing before falling over dead. It is the same in the hunting fields, heart and lung shot Deer can continue to function for a period of time.
The only way to guaranty instant shut down is with a CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM HIT. There is no other way!!!

This is why 'caliber' is not nearly as important as things like: shootability, reliability, ergonomics, function, accuracy, etc...



Would you be willing to take a couple of 14 grain pellets from my .20 Seridan at 30 feet? I bet not... so does that qualify it as an acceptable defense round? NO.

My point is simply that shot placement trumps all... if you're betting your life on the difference between 115 grain pills... and 230 grain pills (or any handgun round)... then you're rolling the dice my friend... in a big way.