Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Cheek Weld--how important

When getting ready to attend an Appleseed and I spent a lot of time practicing with a receiver sighted 10/22 and a CZ 452 in prone, sitting and offhand. However, I was rudely reminded when I picked up a bolt action scoped sighted centerfire rifle that the cheek weld is not as natural and certainly not the same. The scope line of sight was about one inch higher than the irons. The stock sits lower on the cheek and not snuggled under/into the zygomic arch. This is a less "repeatable" cheek weld. I understand most bolt action rifle stocks were actually designed for shoot iron/receiver sights, not scopes, hence the problem. The possible exceptions I know of are Kimbers, Tikkas and NULA's, and several others. My question is how to reconcile the difference, and there is definately a difference. How does one achieve a repeatable, quick, cheek weld using a scoped bolt action rifle in field conditions? Why don't Ruger, Winchester and Remington modernize their stocks to accomodate this--it is worse when using bigger scopes.

You can lower the glass as much as possible, and/or raise the comb of your stock.

There's adjustable comb stocks, comb add-ons, stock packs. I've seen some field expedient comb buildups made with riggers tape and a carved piece of packing foam.

I like the high comb on most of McMillan's A-series stocks.

I sympathize with you- up to a point.

Being a stock designer is not as easy as you think. Ever hear of BOLT THROW?

You cannot design a stock for most centerfire bolt actioned rifles that has a comb higher than the cocking peice of the bolt during cycling.

The Kimbers ,Tikkas and the other brands you mentioned are mostly straight combed classic stocks JUST like the Rugers, Winchesters and Remington you are criticizing. Take the Sako Hunter stock for example- no magic there, just a Monte Carlo comb with the same actual comb height as any other bolt gun
(that nasty bolt throw problem again). It's no better a solution than the Rem BDL stocks that have been made for nearly 50 years.

Hunting is not target shooting. Stocks that are the berrys on the range with target scopes are pretty much clubs in the hunting fields.

Having enough "Cheek weld" is a mental hurdle and a matter of degrees... In reality ,it does nothing for the consistency of the rifle under recoil and excessive contact can actually be a detriment, especially prone or off the bench.

Look at the dedicated BR rigs. Low straight combs and high mounted scopes. Not much "check weld" going on there.

As long as a stock comb has a reasonable amount of support and contact for your cheek, you can do good consistent work with it.

With a Classic combed Sporter stock and medium or higher mounts, there is NO WAY you can get the same stock/sight relationship you can get with an iron sighted rifle.

If you are sensitive to comb height- my advice is to use ONLY low mounted scopes or custom made Monte Carlo/ thumbhole stocks that have combs which sweep up an backward behind the bolt throw for extra support. Or a stock with an adjustable comb.

Miss a kudu at 50 yards out of a hide (with wrong LOP and no cheek weld) and see. I thought enough about that that I revised all my rifles for a good cheek weld and hit my next kudu at 281 yards off sticks.

If you miss a standing animal at 50 yards....from a blind.....you have a lot more problems than "cheek weld".

Cheek weld is extremely important to good shooting. There is no excuse for poor cheek weld on any gun using a standard action or shorter. Benchresters don't use solid cheekweld because they are shooting free-recoil and don't want to touch the gun with more than their trigger finger.

Another solution that hasn't been mentioned is to inlet the comb for the tail of the bolt. Usually about a 1/3" wide by 1" long is enough.

I think it's nearly impossible to get a cheek weld with MOST scoped rifles, and I'm not sure it's that important.

When I went to the US Army Countersniper course, we shot M 14s (XM something back then) with ART scopes on them. We taped shooting gloves to the stock to get a cheek weld. It helped because we spent so much time behind the rifle that your neck got tired unless you had something to lean it against. One day, we shot without the gloves, and did just fine for the hour or so we didn't have them.

I used a big piece of tanned Elk hide and some camo tape on my 6.5x55 with composite stock this fall. It has a small checkpiece, but not high enough for a good check weld. It looks like hell, but it works perfect. Actually, it's a hunting rifle, so it can look like hell.

The Brown Precision and Kimber both have less drop at comb and at heel than a Ruger or Remington.

The latter two drop over an inch at comb, and then slope downward from there. That makes a large difference in felt recoil IMO, against a stock that does not drop as much at comb and has no downward slope toward the heel. Cheek weld with a scope is much more solid with a stock that does not slope downward toward heel.

This wasn't much of an issue with me until I started concentrated .22 practice and then subsequently shot my Savage Scout. Shooting the Scout showed that the low comb made achieving a consistent and comfortable cheek weld difficult, it was particularly noticeable in prone. Although I was aware of it before, it wasn't a big deal for me. I won a competition against 14 others using the Scout but I won despite of the comb issue--I think probably because I had shot many, many rounds with the rifle and was very comfortable with it. Since the competition was a speed event, getting the proper mount and cheek was very important. But if one practices enough, one can overcome fit problems. I guess right now after shooting thousand of rounds with a firm consistent cheek weld (with the .22's) the difference is very noticeable.

I think this (and LOP) are as important and are similar to getting a proper grip on a handgun. Speed is important. I think a good measure of this, and can also be done with a rifle, is to face a target, focus on it, then close the eyes, grip and draw the gun and aim at the target. Open your eyes. Is the gun pointing at the target; do the sights line up. Can you do this consistently once a month without specifically practicing this drill in order to game the drill? Remember the initial grip is the grip--no changes in grip once the hand is on the gun.

Do the same thing with rifle starting slung and bring it up to offhand. Where is it pointing; sights on target?

To be honest, I wish I didn't know anything about this since ignorance is bliss. It doesn't seem to bother most people.

You've mentioned something here about pull length.
It affects stability of your hold and shooting position more than you would think. Especially offhand shooting. Most folks need way less pull for offhand use than they think they do.

A shorter pull helps you "lock" the gun into your upper body better and get the balance point back further for better balance.

Really, for a multi position rifle, you should select the pull length that is JUST long enough to not have the base of the your trigger hand in your face when laying prone. The only other consideration is recoil and that is a non factor with the rimfire rifles you are talking about.

As to comb height ,barring having expensive custom stocks made, a lace on or strap on Cheek riser would be best for your rifles with scope use.

In Shooting Prone to Win by Ernest Vande Zande, (AR, April 1981) Mr. Vande Zande, a National Smallbore Prone Champ, claims that adjusting the comb of his rifle by the thickness of a penny makes a significant difference in his score.

You won't notice the thickness of a penny out shooting deer, but when you get to some of the ridiculous comb to line of sight differences like you get when your chin is just touching the comb such as with a scope on an AK with Russian mounts, I do see a difference and it is difficult to shoot.

As with anything, it really boils down to a matter of degree.

Important enough that I won't use a HIGH mounted 50 mm Obj. scope to lose it.

Not to mention the balance and size issue.

Cheek weld - hate to admit it, but I shot my Marlin 357 better w/irons b/c of it. Offhand 7 or 8 of 10 hits on 2 liter coke bottles water filled to 150 yds - w/irons. NOT near as well scoped.

DO have to admit Trigger STIFF as heck out the box in fair disclosure - so it did not help as one loses the weld.

This is exactly why I hate see-thru scope rings so much. I tend to see them way more on Marlin levers for what it is worth. This is the worst combo on earth. The comb height on the stock was made for irons, and even the lowest mounted scope is really too high for a good repeatable cheek weld.

I have a buddy who has been hunting darn near 40 years, excellent hunter, but the guns are a tool to him and not the hobby. His brother has set up the two or three various rifles he uses and put see-thrus on all of them. He manages to shoot them all just fine to a certain extent, but they are sure awkward to me. He will readilly admit that he has never once used the irons.

I had one of his, a Marlin 30-30 at the range one day, and I tried the irons and they were so far off, you wouldn't hit a barn from the inside. With a scope on there, the irons become rather cumbersome anyway.

I have been able to wean him off of them slowly, he got a new ruger 77, and I set it up with low mounted scope, and it fits great, I have a set of rings and standard low mount scope base for his marlin, and a commitment to remount the scope the next time we can get to the range. Two down, about three million to go.

So anyway, it is an extreme example of bad cheek weld, but yeah it is important. Low mounted scope is easier than rasing the comb, but what are you going to do.

Beat me to it.

The factory stocks on my 40-X rifles are done exactly that way.

The "tube gun" stocks have solved this problem entirely.

Guys,

I know all about those 40x stocks.

Besides the bolt, the stock CANNOT be higher than the bore of the rifle, if you want to clean from the breach.

Either the stock comb has to be adjustable or removable, or the action must come out of the stock.

Again, the tube gun stocks have eliminated this problem entirely. Have a look:

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/11/equipment-adjusting-tubegun-stock.html

About halfway down the page is a good picture of how the tube gun stock allows the bolt to ride under the shooter's face.

It doesn't need to be "higher" than the bore.

With the notched comb, you are only allowing for the bottom third or so of the bolt to ride into the notch.

You can still easily clean form the chamber end, as a cleaning rod is a lot thinner than a bolt. The rod just lays pretty much along the comb; works fine.

Getting just that much more comb height greatly enhances your fit behind a scope.

100% agree..And you need to be able o get good cheek weld in all shooting positions too...I have a Houge on my Howa which worked fine from a standing position, was ok from a bench, but was terrible from the prone position when shooting a slightly uphill target...The problem was solved using a comb raiser, but now I have a Manners stock with a high comb and its much better solution..