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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,749
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
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Folks can make up all kinds of crap. The facts stand.
Until the FN came along, an out of the box MOA Model 70 was a rare bird. Amazing that somehow I've managed to have more than a dozen or more "rare birds". Swamptroll you are just trying to stir up crap on something you obviously don't know what you are talking about...........................DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
The times when I've actually needed better than 2 MOA accuracy for hunting big game has actually been quite small, even though it has been no trouble to get most every Winchester M70 I've shot well below that. But the number of times the M70 rifle has been a better choice than most M700s I've shot has been plenty. Either will work, accuracy isn't the whole story, or even close to the majority issue - and the 700 doesn't have a corner on it anyway, but I still like the simplicity of the M70 - it relates well to the principle of KISS.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 41
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 41 |
Just had to through my thoughts out there for this most interesting topic. However, I only have one perspective. I have two M70's of the FN variety, and I love them. My extreme weather SS in 30-06 is a 1/2 moa gun with H414 and nosler accubonds. I drenched it in northern Idaho this October, without a thought. The last time I checked a pre-64 M70 was in really good shape, was really expensive. If I had a hand full of cash and could pick and choose I would take two M-70 FN's and leave the old feller on the shelf. I'm not a collector though, I'm a user. Mostly I'm just glad that the rifle is what it once was, or at least a closer semblance.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,185
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,185 |
Gee. I have an example of 6. The FNs must be one holers for 3-5 shots because that is what my pre64s come close to when I am shooting well. They are Standard 270 and 30-06, a 300 H&H, and a .375 H&H and a FW in 30-06. The FW is an inch to inch and a half for three shots with me shooting it. Unless things have changed that is what WBY gurantees. This is of course from the bench.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
But the number of times the M70 rifle has been a better choice than most M700s I've shot has been plenty. Well shoot Mark..There we go agreeing again.Is the sky falling... Jayco
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Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
I expect a deer rifle to shoot MOA or it's gone. That's why I mostly shoot Remingtons.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,178 Likes: 18
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,178 Likes: 18 |
Folks can make up all kinds of crap. The facts stand.
Until the FN came along, an out of the box MOA Model 70 was a rare bird. I've got a pre 64 and a nice classic (in swampy's favorite chambering) that shoot less than moa very consistantly. I've got an FN made varriation coming soon and I've got my fingers crossed about that one. The pre-64's never cease to amaze me when it comes to accuracy. Swampy is old enough to know better, don't know why he is so biased????
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
I'm not biased, I love Winchesters but not enough to make stuff up about their accuracy.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
I'm not biased, I love Winchesters but not enough to make stuff up about their accuracy. You love Remmys enough for that though.....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,178 Likes: 18
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,178 Likes: 18 |
Maybe you've just been unlucky with the ones you did have.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
Who wrote this??? "Sometime in the very early 1960's I was informed by Winchester brass that the Model 70 was being redesigned. I told them I was glad to get the information so I could lay in four or five more before they loused the rifle up."
"Then I saw the pilot model of the 'New Model 70.' At the first glimpse I like to fell into a swoon. The action was simplified, the trigger guard and floor plate made of a flimsy-looking one-piece stamping. The stock had stodgy lines and no checkering, and the barrel channel was routed out so much a herd of cockroaches could hold a ball below the barrel. On my first glimpse of the 'New Model 70' I was surrounded by the designers and by Winchester brass. I told them the creation would not sell, that it was one of the ugliest rifles I had ever seen." Jayco
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,178 Likes: 18
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,178 Likes: 18 |
JOC, That's an easy one. Out of "The Rifle Book".
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,178 Likes: 18
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,178 Likes: 18 |
What did I win jayco??? 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
It wasn't just me. Winchesters have never been known for their accuracy. They are good hunting rifles.....period.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
Rems seem to fit me a little better, but pre 64's have a special quality to them. No, they don't handle gas well, but I've had only one case head failure in my life, and that was because of doing something silly.
The FN's have a different feel to me, not quite as good as the Remingtons, but the fit & finish is very good. I could see buying one of these, pretty easy.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
It wasn't just me. Winchesters have never been known for their accuracy. They are good hunting rifles.....period. Is that why Marine Scout-Sniper Carlos Hathcock was credited with over 80 confirmed kills during his first tour of the Republic of Vietnam between 1966 and 1967. Except for the use of a .50 caliber M2 machine gun, with his 8x Unertl scope mounted on it, the majority of these kills were made with his caliber .30-06 Winchester Model 70 and the Unertl telescope. Jayco
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
Its also why M70 Targets made such good showings at Wimbledon for so many years... 
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,087
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,087 |
swampy you are delusionial
ddj
Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau
The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back. - Robert Ruark
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I rather like the most recent M700 sample with its 19 pound trigger. But it does shoot well if it doesn't bounce too much at trigger break. Actually, it wasn't difficult to correct - perhaps one of Remington's biggest plusses. It would be nice to know that I could as easily un-gunk the trigger when it gets iced like you can with the older M70s. Benching is fun; hunting is funner!
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
I rather like the most recent M700 sample with its 19 pound trigger. But it does shoot well if it doesn't bounce too much at trigger break. Actually, it wasn't difficult to correct - perhaps one of Remington's biggest plusses. It would be nice to know that I could as easily un-gunk the trigger when it gets iced like you can with the older M70s. Benching is fun; hunting is funner! There goes Klik, being practical again and tossing that Alaskan weather and conditions into the mix......shatters fantasy all the time And I agree with the guy a few posts back who said the Classic with SS is a real good way to go.......  Jayco: Well, John Wayne is another example why we have Winchester mystique......I love all old Winchesters.Being as how New Haven is close to where I live, you would be surprised how many old Winchesters pop up in the New England area. Brad: For sure,pre 64 M70's were made for "Function Nazi's"
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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