Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Pre-64 Versus Today's Model 70?

Quite a few show up at Camp Perry IIRC. They not only shoot accurately but they seem to have less feeding problems than Remington rifles do. This is helpful during the rapid fire stage of the National Match Course of fire.
whelennut

Ummm, small correction. Depends on the model. The sub-MOA model is guaranteed to group an inch or less.

Now back to the beer and popcorn... this has been a fun and informative thread to watch with the exception of the recent appearance of the village idiot. I'm sure we can all ignore and continue with what has been a mostly civil and entertaining discussion.

Swampy not to engage in any arguments of course,but I would disagree.Pre 64's, on average, have out shot about any other production rifle I have owned,and that includes a pile of Remingtons as well.The barrels were broached(cut),stress free and very accurate. Some rifles have needed some fiddling but mostly not very much.

I have had everything from 375H&H clear down to the Swift produce stupid groups for me;easily on a par with anything I have owned today.

This has long been the reason I don't build custom 270's or 30/06's anymore....it makes no sense to spend the money, because I "know" (having done it so many times) that if you take a pre 64 FW or Standard in those calibers,have the metal bedded in a good synthetic stock, it will shoot sub MOA easily,every single time.Sorry to say but frequently it will do significantly better,and you could spend thousands and not get a better rifle of like kind.

I belong to a club full of highpower match shooters.....after seeing my old 300H&H perform at 600 yards the club VP would not leave me alone and kept trying to buy it....

Spend a 1000+ on the Model 70 and it can shoot with an out of the box $350.00 Remington 700. A new stock and barrel are good places to start.

Swampy..where exactly can I get a new, out of the box Remington for $350...?

I did that once. I think it was $400. Had to send it back, wouldn't feed a round out of the magazine so I never got to see how accurate it was.

I'm sure it shot lights out though.

More than a few experienced people here stand behind what they know to be the facts on pre64 Model 70s.

Then we have this lone hero of the Rem 700, and when he speaks and turns around there he stands all by himself. No backup, no posters of like mind. A lost soul out in the wilderness (swamp?), jabbering into his computer, hoping someone of like mind is out there listening.

This Model 70 thread is played out countless times during a year. Reason being it is a rifle that has always, no matter its reincarnation, generated enthusiasm and anticipation.

And then there is Swampman, Model 700 held high, all by himself.
"Swampman 700 phone home."

Swampy, you're baiting us....and you're wrong.

Swampy throws good bait. He just isn't all that good at setting the hook.

Pre-64 Model 70...all original 375 H&H 275 BBC at 100 yds 2800 FPS...so much for the lack of accuracy from a Pre-64...my other calibers 270,264,and 30-06 have done just as well..all original rifles with hunting hand loads..

Wonder what he'd say if hw knew that M70 Classic barrels and Remington barrels,were made on the exact same hammer forge machines manufactured out of Germany......uh...Ruger, too.

I'd say it takes more than a machine to make an accurate rifle.

Yep it's a well known and often mentioned fact that Remington only hires the most experienced of smiths. Men and women who are at the peak of their craft. Why just look it up.

The 700 was designed for cheap and easy manufacture after the war... it's a steel toilet paper tube that's easy to chuck on a lathe and stick parts on. If the 700 turned out to be "accurate" was purely a happy accident.

Aside, I've had a small pile of 700's and as a whole I've not found them to be any more or less accurate than all the M70's I've owned.

If you want the most accurate "out of the box" rifle, The Savage 110 and Tikka T3 are your huckleberries...

I can offer no explanations, only 50 years of personal experience.

Thanks for the correction. I forgot about the SUB-MOA. But, arn't the SUB-MOA just those few that were found to shoot better then the rest? In other words not purpose built to shoot that well. Anyway that is what I have read in some magazines.

What, when you were 10 you were an authority too? Capable of discerning which rifles were the "most accurate?"

Must be the reason my Remington 504 bolt .22 had to go back to Kentucky to their gunsmith. The barrel was bored way off center and would pattern not group. It came back wearing a new barrel with surface rust on it, only one he had left I guess from rebarreling all those dogs. 504's didn't sell for chump change either.

The experianced "smith" must have called in sick and let his apprentice assemble my rifle.................

Usually when it is said rifling is broached that means the grooves were all cut in one pass with a gang broach like this:





When it is said rifling is cut we're usually talking about the machining being done one groove at a time, and with many lighter passes of a hook cutter like this:





Of course, they are both cutting mechanisms. Which did Winchester use?

I believe you just qualified your personal experience with Model 70's.

Thanks for the insight.

JW