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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,698 |
Quite a few show up at Camp Perry IIRC. They not only shoot accurately but they seem to have less feeding problems than Remington rifles do. This is helpful during the rapid fire stage of the National Match Course of fire. whelennut
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,162 |
The FW is an inch to inch and a half for three shots with me shooting it. Unless things have changed that is what WBY gurantees. Ummm, small correction. Depends on the model. The sub-MOA model is guaranteed to group an inch or less. Now back to the beer and popcorn... this has been a fun and informative thread to watch with the exception of the recent appearance of the village idiot. I'm sure we can all ignore and continue with what has been a mostly civil and entertaining discussion.
If you're fixin' to put a hole in something, make it a hole to remember.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
It wasn't just me. Winchesters have never been known for their accuracy. They are good hunting rifles.....period. Swampy not to engage in any arguments of course,but I would disagree.Pre 64's, on average, have out shot about any other production rifle I have owned,and that includes a pile of Remingtons as well.The barrels were broached(cut),stress free and very accurate. Some rifles have needed some fiddling but mostly not very much. I have had everything from 375H&H clear down to the Swift produce stupid groups for me;easily on a par with anything I have owned today. This has long been the reason I don't build custom 270's or 30/06's anymore....it makes no sense to spend the money, because I "know" (having done it so many times) that if you take a pre 64 FW or Standard in those calibers,have the metal bedded in a good synthetic stock, it will shoot sub MOA easily,every single time.Sorry to say but frequently it will do significantly better,and you could spend thousands and not get a better rifle of like kind. I belong to a club full of highpower match shooters.....after seeing my old 300H&H perform at 600 yards the club VP would not leave me alone and kept trying to buy it....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
Spend a 1000+ on the Model 70 and it can shoot with an out of the box $350.00 Remington 700. A new stock and barrel are good places to start.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983 919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
Swampy..where exactly can I get a new, out of the box Remington for $350...?
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,161 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,161 Likes: 7 |
I did that once. I think it was $400. Had to send it back, wouldn't feed a round out of the magazine so I never got to see how accurate it was.
I'm sure it shot lights out though.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813 |
More than a few experienced people here stand behind what they know to be the facts on pre64 Model 70s.
Then we have this lone hero of the Rem 700, and when he speaks and turns around there he stands all by himself. No backup, no posters of like mind. A lost soul out in the wilderness (swamp?), jabbering into his computer, hoping someone of like mind is out there listening.
This Model 70 thread is played out countless times during a year. Reason being it is a rifle that has always, no matter its reincarnation, generated enthusiasm and anticipation.
And then there is Swampman, Model 700 held high, all by himself. "Swampman 700 phone home."
Last edited by battue; 12/31/10.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Spend a 1000+ on the Model 70 and it can shoot with an out of the box $350.00 Remington 700. A new stock and barrel are good places to start. Swampy, you're baiting us....and you're wrong.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813 |
Swampy throws good bait. He just isn't all that good at setting the hook.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 409
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 409 |
Pre-64 Model 70...all original 375 H&H 275 BBC at 100 yds 2800 FPS...so much for the lack of accuracy from a Pre-64...my other calibers 270,264,and 30-06 have done just as well..all original rifles with hunting hand loads..
Last edited by ou76; 12/31/10.
"To pick a rifle and bullet for use on game by muzzle energy alone is, at best, foolish...and can be dangerous to your own health..." Bill Steigers, April 23, 1980
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Wonder what he'd say if hw knew that M70 Classic barrels and Remington barrels,were made on the exact same hammer forge machines manufactured out of Germany......uh...Ruger, too.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
I'd say it takes more than a machine to make an accurate rifle.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983 919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813 |
Yep it's a well known and often mentioned fact that Remington only hires the most experienced of smiths. Men and women who are at the peak of their craft. Why just look it up.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 |
The 700 was designed for cheap and easy manufacture after the war... it's a steel toilet paper tube that's easy to chuck on a lathe and stick parts on. If the 700 turned out to be "accurate" was purely a happy accident.
Aside, I've had a small pile of 700's and as a whole I've not found them to be any more or less accurate than all the M70's I've owned.
If you want the most accurate "out of the box" rifle, The Savage 110 and Tikka T3 are your huckleberries...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371 Likes: 1 |
Yep it's a well known and often mentioned fact that Remington only hires the most experienced of smiths. Men and women who are at the peak of their craft. Why just look it up. I can offer no explanations, only 50 years of personal experience.
1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983 919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994
"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,186
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,186 |
The FW is an inch to inch and a half for three shots with me shooting it. Unless things have changed that is what WBY gurantees. Ummm, small correction. Depends on the model. The sub-MOA model is guaranteed to group an inch or less. Now back to the beer and popcorn... this has been a fun and informative thread to watch with the exception of the recent appearance of the village idiot. I'm sure we can all ignore and continue with what has been a mostly civil and entertaining discussion. Thanks for the correction. I forgot about the SUB-MOA. But, arn't the SUB-MOA just those few that were found to shoot better then the rest? In other words not purpose built to shoot that well. Anyway that is what I have read in some magazines.
Last edited by Just a Hunter; 12/31/10.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,161 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,161 Likes: 7 |
I can offer no explanations, only 50 years of personal experience. What, when you were 10 you were an authority too? Capable of discerning which rifles were the "most accurate?"
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 96
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 96 |
Yep it's a well known and often mentioned fact that Remington only hires the most experienced of smiths. Men and women who are at the peak of their craft. Why just look it up. Must be the reason my Remington 504 bolt .22 had to go back to Kentucky to their gunsmith. The barrel was bored way off center and would pattern not group. It came back wearing a new barrel with surface rust on it, only one he had left I guess from rebarreling all those dogs. 504's didn't sell for chump change either. The experianced "smith" must have called in sick and let his apprentice assemble my rifle.................
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,884 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,884 Likes: 10 |
The barrels were broached(cut),stress free and very accurate. Usually when it is said rifling is broached that means the grooves were all cut in one pass with a gang broach like this: When it is said rifling is cut we're usually talking about the machining being done one groove at a time, and with many lighter passes of a hook cutter like this: Of course, they are both cutting mechanisms. Which did Winchester use?
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,100 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,100 Likes: 4 |
Folks can make up all kinds of crap. The facts stand.
Until the FN came along, an out of the box MOA Model 70 was a rare bird. I believe you just qualified your personal experience with Model 70's. Thanks for the insight. JW
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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