Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders TC PRO hunter-poor accuracy

Since I am off for a few days decided to work with the Muzzleloader a bit. Have tried various sabots 777 powder loose and pellets, Pyrodex, and black. reg 209 primers as well as the special ones for 777. different sabota, reg and platium powerbelts. Best accuracy at 100 is about 3"..pretty awful IMOP. My old browning round ball will out shoot this thing with most any load. I have a nice proven 6X42 Leupie mounted and a good rest. Are these rifles that difficult to get to shoot?

Thanks,

Lefty C

www.bellmtcs.com email him and see if he can help you with loads.

Lefty, a proof load for you to try.......110 to 120gr of BH 209 and a 240 gr Precision Rifle Dead Center bullet.............If it don't shoot that, send it back to T/C for a replacement barrel!!



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I'm not an expert here, but if the rifle came with a warranty that said that they guaranteed one MOA of accuracy at 100 yards with brand X bullet and brand Y powder and brand Z primer - then I would send it back.
But if it was a buy it at your own risk type of deal - 3 inches of accuracy sounds about right to me.

A friend of mine bought a center line muzzle loader rifle a couple of years ago and had worked up a good load for it.
When it came time for him to take it hunting, he found that in cold weather that it would not fire the new pelletized powder with the shotgun primer.
By the time he found this out - he had missed several opportunities at a couple of nice whitetail deer.
Fortunately he was not far from home and he pulled the load out of his rifle and had to go back to the round ball and black powder - because that was all he had.

We had several discussions about his new Knight rifle and about his other rifles such as his TC and his Hawken and his Remington Genesis and about which was the best in his opinion.

I guess what it all boils down to is which one works best for you and how you take care of it.

I think we get too caught up with all the hype that the gun writers in the magazines gives these new rifles - mainly because they are getting paid to do so and also because if you were going to build a rifle to be given to a person to test to write an article - you wouldn't give them the worst one you ever made.
Given the proper rifle and the proper load and a special pick of the litter - you might get good accuracy out of one of their rifles, but I wouldn't count on some Walmart special to do the same.

My main concern would be the outside temperature when I fired the rifle, how many shots I could take before it needed to be disassembled and cleaned and how durable it was in the field.
If some dumb part broke while hunting - but it was very accurate when it worked, the one would be a trade off for the other.

I would follow the advice of the people on this forum, as to which powder to use, how much powder to use, when to clean it, how to clean it, which bullet worked best for them and try as many different combination as possible until I found the load that worked best.

I guess we are pretty lucky in Pennsylvania because we are not allowed to use rifle scopes on our muzzle loaders in muzzle loader season. That keeps us from trying to shoot 100 yards or more and to use a more realistic range of about 50 to 60 yards for most rifle shots at whitetail deer.

You can throw all the money in the world at a rifle and if it is not capable of shooting 100 yards, no rifle scope or magic bullet is going to make it do any better then a plain old round ball and that is just my opinion.

I had one that would not shoot any bullet under 300gr. and really only with the muzzle loader specific primers. Drove me crazy for a couple weeks until I tried the 300 grain bullets.

110 grs. BH209, Precision Bullet 330 gr. Elite HP, CCI magnum primers. My T/C Pro/Hunter luvs it! Less then 1" @ 100yds.

JohnP

Leftycarbon,

You may have a bad "QLA" in the barrel or you bore may be a little over size. The bore diameter range in .499 to .502.

How are you swabbing the bore in-between shots with the 777 powder?? Just a mouth wet patch is enough flipping the patch over for a second run down the barrel. If you are using a solvent
like T/C #13 you will have the accuracy results you are experiencing. The barrel should not have a residue coating from any solvents.

I suggest you try a can of BH-209 and elininate the swabbing.

Doc

Check out SMI (smokeless muzzle loading.com)& Bullberry Barrles. I'm much happier by going smokless.Shoots like a rifle easy to clean w/hoppies #9 & a bore snake.Also no smoke cloud when you shoot ; you can see the direction the deer run off when shot.I used my Encore/SMI during rifle(& muzzle loading) season cause it shoots as well as any deer rifle I own.Also check out Doug's Message Board. PS: I sold my T/C Triumph & T/C 209/50 barrel & have a CVA .50 barrel NIB I'll sell.

Thanks everyone for all the tips.

Doc, I swabbed either with windex or just plain spit and not at all. Results pretty much the same,
Had a Thor sample pack of different sized bullets to measure bore size. .500's just fell through the bore, .501 required light pressure, and .502's were very tight had to tap them through with a mallet. So I would guess the bore is about .501.
I don't like 777 it forms a wicked crud ring with 2 shots. Will get some BH powder tomorrow. Nearest store open is over 50 miles away.

The worst accuracy is from power belts in any grain 4-6" awfull.

I did however stumble on one combo that shot very well, 1-1/2".
Harvestor crush rib sabots,.429 speer 270 gr bullets, 120 777, & the Win. 209 primer. Have used the 270's in a .444 rifle I know they are effective. At least I have something I can finish the season out with some confidence.

Lefty C

Lefty

I had a TC Omega that would throw .429 & .400 sabot'd bullets all over the place. The sabots for those bullets weren't large enough to fully engage the rifling when I was using 120 gr. of loose 777. The sabots weren't engaging an the bullets weren't stabalizing in my rifle.

What fixed it for me was going to the .452 bullet/sabot combination. That provided a tighter fit in the bore and the 300gr. bullet seems to stabalize.

It will now shoot 1.25-1.5" groups with a clean bore. I have to swab after every shot for my rifle to shoot well. Not a problem cause I'm counting on the 1st shot doing its business anyway.

Between shots, I run a couple of wet patches to break up the ring and then a couple of dry patches. Not clean by any means, but clean enough to shoot well.

You might try going with the 45's instead of the 44's

I also had no luck with the PowerBelts. That little plastic ring is awful gimmicky...IMO

Mine loads extremely tight with most sabots.

LC

yep a tc not shootin conicals, why am i not surprised?

+1

OK.......i gotta chime in!!!!!

I have owned one for 4 yrs. It shoots MOA...honestly!!!! i can shoot 100 inch groups (3shot) at 100 yds repeatedly and when I got to 200, i can usuallllly keep them around 2 to 2.5inches. I do this with Blackhorn 120g and a 245 gr barnes spitfire.

NOW.....i have been after my brother to get one cuz he has struggled iwth other various mzl loader (cheaper T/C versions, and older knights).....well, he bought one last week. He called me from the range and said "WOW, AWESOME!!!". AFter sighting it in, he shot 2 shot under an inch at 100. He couldnt help but go to 200 to see if he could get similiar results to mine. Well....he did better thene xpected. HE put his 1st 2 shots at 200 yds about an inch apart and 6 inches low!!! We sight in for 150 dead on, 2.5 high at 100.

Gotta love BH 209 and a good bullet. He also is having great accuracy with the lead bullet from Dead Precision.

FYI....Triple 777 did well for me....but the consistency and ease of BH 209 can not be beat. My accuracy got waaaay better consistently with BH 209.
I shot a 179 1/8 inch whitetail here on my first day out , at 207 yards. I was so very very confident in my gun/load, it was no problem. Double lung and done.

An

I had one just like yours after 3-4 try to thompson they finnaly sent me a new barrel they said they shot the old one but that didn't happen then said it groups withen there range then after I got piss and said what I wanted they sent a new barrel shot it worked but sold it with no regrets

Lefty,
I don't own a T/C but have shot a few with good accuracy. There are a few loads I could suggest, but its really going to come down to what your rifle likes.

I'd like to second John034 suggestion to try the 330gr Extreme Elite with either Pyrodex or BH209. My CVA likes 110grs and 100grs respectfully. With Pyrodex I can get two goods shots out to 100 yards before having to swab the barrel. I can also use regular primers with less blow back and less chance of getting stuck (I've never had a magnum primer get stuck in my CVA but another member on the board has gotten "sticky" primers in their T/C from the extra heat they produce). With BH209 you get more consistent accuracy and more than 2 shots without swabbing (you know in case you need to take a third shot on that deer ;-). You will have to use a hotter primer like Fedgeral Magnum or CCI Magnum. Some have been reporting that Remington STS are not as hot as the magnums and has ignited BH209 reliably YMMV.

Someone might tell you to cut off QLA to improve accuracy. I don't know if it will improve your accuracy but I can guarantee you it will "void the warranty on that barrel" (TC's words not mine) and TC will require that you replace it before working with you.

I hope things work out for you. On a recent trip to the local Cabelas (mostly to give them a hard time for not selling CVA's) I saw a 50 Cal PH going for $999. WOWZER

Happy Shotin

HaYen

Mine has shot well with pellets ans bhorn 209. two pellets have a 250 gr sabot hitting 2" at 200yds. god enough for me. Theb loose powder is somthing I'm still working with. 90grs hit dead on at 100yds. Have to play some more with it. Good luck.