Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Which 7mm-08 Bullet for Elk?

A B&C measurer in my area has accumulated a whole warehouse full of N.A trophies using a couple of 7-08s in XP-100 handguns. He has numerous sheep, mulies, elk and a ton of exotics to his credit. The bullet he used and preferred? The Nosler 140BT.

Riflesmith Darrell Holland has take several elk and a whole gamut of African plains game using the 140NBT out of his 7-08AI.

Like Flinch stated, the 7-08 does not require premium bullets to work well. For myself, I have confidence in the 140NPT or 140NBT, and the 140AB would be a good choice too judging by others folks experiences.

MtnHtr

Oh well, here goes....

I got to admit I've never seen an elk killed with a 140 Noz BT out of a 7mm, but unless the 140 grainer is a LOT more robust, and sprinkled with more Pixie Dust, than other BT's..........

....the BT would be among my last choice in anything with a MV over, say, 500 fps

I've killed or witnessed the kill on at least a dozen elk in the past 25 years with BT's--from my personal experience with early production BT's out of a 270 to recent years guiding and witnessing the effect of BT's with 7mm's, 30 cal's, 338 cal's, and a 35 Whelen--ALL of them resulted in a elk race to one extent or the other. Not to mention a couple races with muleys and one pronghorn.

It's actually a bit of a joke with some guides I know; If the client is using BT's, we wear our track shoes........

In light of all the other good bullets out there, the BT is waaay too frangible.

A TSX in 150gr (preferable) or a 140.

My first choice is going to be a 150 Noz Pt, or a 140 Pt--Partitions in the medium or heavyish weights still seem to perform the most consistently across the widest range of velocities, with as good of penetration as any.


Casey

Being a guide, you know that clients can't shoot for sheet, so you can't blame the bullet for crappy shot placement or using too light of a bullet for the caliber ;o). I personally have killed 7 bulls with 7mm mag and 140 grain Nosler Ballistic tips moving along from 3,200-3,300 fps. Ranges were from 150-420 yards. Only one bull moved out of his tracks and that was because I muffed the shot at 420 yards in a blinding snow storm. He went 3 steps and tipped over. I killed 4 other bull elk with a 30-06 and 165 grain Nosler Ballistic tips. Oh, and a 38" Shiras bull at 25 yards with the .30-06 and 165 ballistic tips. All dropped at the shot...dead. I recovered about half of the bullets just under the skin on the off side out of the .30-06, including the moose. They are perfectly mushroomed and retained about 60% of their weight over all. The others exited with golf ball sized exit holes. The 7mm bullets retained about 40% of their weight on the recovered bullets. A couple did come apart, but only after shattering the shoulder bones and making mush out of everything, inside. I have shot them through shoulders, face on, quartering away, didn't matter, they always stir things up inside in a big way. I couldn't care less about exit holes, which the vast majority of hunters hang their hat on.

Turn the 140 grain Ballistic Tip down a notch in speed from the 7mm mag to 7mm-08 velocity and it REALLY shines. I have actually killed 18 pigs and 10 deer with the 120 grain Hornady hollow point shot out of the 7mm-08 at a smidge over 3,000 fps. It has been a heck of a bullet for under 300 lb. critters. I have dumped them with clean one shot kills past 550 yards. It is an amazing and over looked round. I think it is due to the lack of rifles in the caliber. The ones that are available have 18-20 inch barrels and short stocks. Sure, they are neeto to pack around, but the velocity suffers. I just picked one up with a 24" barrel (thank you Remington). Love that round and I could rule the world with just that one round in in my stable. It digest every bullet on the market easily and accurately. If you want a heck of a varmint round, the 120's are amazing (I have shot dozens of prairie dogs past 400 yards). If deer, pigs, or any other medium game is on the menu, 120-140 grain cup and core bullets rein supreme. If you want elk and moose, 140-160 grain bullets work fabulous and again you don't need the expense of premiums. Let's not forget, they can be light (22-24" pipe) and are still gentle on the shoulder. My favorite one is 7 lbs. all up in a McMillan Remington Classic stock with a 22" buggy whip barrel. Everyone that shoots it or hunts with it falls in love with it. Flinch

I must have really, really, bad karma with Ballistic Tips........



Casey

I like clients shooting Ballistic Tips. I know if they make a bad hit (gut shot, too far back, too low etc., the BT will still stir up stuff inside and we will get the critter. Premium bullets with the same type hits are a lost animal that will have a long miserable death. But hey, the bullet made and exit hole..lol ;o) Flinch

U must Casey...grin

Seriously, I've used the 150 NBT out of my Mashburn @ 3250-3300 on a ton of game and never once found it lacking. Far, close game big or small it just lights them up like a porcupine into a baloon. And I've never found one in game.

The 200 has a been a total rock star out of my 338/06 as has the 70 and 95 out of my 6/06.

As for the 7/08 and elk, the 139 Horn is at the top of my list, the 120, 140, 150 NBT would all rock as well! Plus I really like the 160 Sierra HPBT.

Hunt hard and hunt often!

Dober

Mark, are you saying the 139 grain Hornady sucked? I don't like the boat tail at all, but the flat base corelock is a winner. Flinch

Nope I didn't write that very good, I'll modify it. I totally love the bullet, the flat base has given me better accuracy for the most part but either one is fine with me.

I use the flat base 139 as a fire forming load out of my Mashburn and it shoots like a house a fire and kills like all get out!

Dober

Evidently the reputation of the early Ballistic Tips lives on in some places, and the people that still harbor a grudge can't tell the difference between bullet performance and shooter performance.

I've shot a lot of Ballistic Tips from .25 to .338 and .375 into various animals over the past decade and they all worked just fine, with more than enough penetration for the job at hand. Anybody who wounds and loses an elk with the 200-grain .338 BT made a really lousy shot.

I kinda' figured you would weigh in and chide me.........


Don't assume the BT's were bad hits--they weren't.

But if all I had to go on were performance of BT's from almost 25 years ago, that would be one thing--but it ain't.

I spent practically a full extra day packing elk meat out of a canyon in NM when a client made a dead on shot on a nice bull at 200 yds with a 180gr BT handload out of a 300WM, that bull ran 75 yards to the rim and stumbled, bumbled and tumbled clear to the bottom. That was three years ago.

I've seen roughly a dozen elk killed with BT's since they appeared, most in the last 10 years--there has been a chase of some sort with every one. For better or worse, they don't penetrate very well when me and my karma are present.....

I have an entertaining story with the early BT's, but it would read like a novelette


Casey

Most but not all the guides I've crossed paths with in elk country were just old recruited ranch hands. They hired on to give horse and trail rides to old retired doctors and dentists, maybe shoot an average animal and then whoop it up. These ranch hands had little knowledge of anything gunny and judged folks by how tall in the saddle they rode. lols

Keep in mind I stated "most".

MtnHtr

I know what you mean--same for most outfitters. They know how to hunt, but technical knowledge of firearms, ballistics, or even technical knowledge of the quarry is an exception rather than the rule.


Casey

Ditto here as well on the issue of guides and rifle/caliber knowledge.

I've met a handful of "guides" over the years in Idaho's backcountry. Without exception, everyone of them were loggers, ranchers, or the like moonlighting for a few extra dollars.

Doesn't mean they didn't know anything about calibers I suppose, but they certainly weren't JB.

I will take every crummy, explosive poor penetrating ballistic tip you can send my way ;o) I Love them!

Just curious and not trying to chide you in any way, but really, would a hit from any other bullet anchored any of those critters you "chased"? Premiums make exit holes, but do little in stirring up the innards of critters, unless some good bone is hit. An elk stumbling 75 yards in ANY situation from a good hit sure isn't uncommon. Again, it isn't due to the bullet not doing it's job. I'm sure the inner workings were completely scrambled....yes? A premium would have ONLY offered an exit hole, over an above what the ballistic tip did...right? I would love to hear your stories about them. Not the elaborations, but what really went down with no emotional BS added in. Caliber, bullet weight, hit location, distance. I love gleaming information like that. Not to get anyone upset, just for informational comparisons. Whenever I hear a "bullet failure" the original story sounds like the bullet blew up as soon as it left the muzzle. After digging into it a little more, the shooter blew the shot, the bullet hit a tree, went through it and hit the animal in a bad spot or something like that. The bullet didn't penetrate and made a nasty wound. Of course, the bullet was to blame. I laugh when I hear the stories of them blowing up on the hide of a deer...uh hu....sure....and what did the bullet hit before reaching the deer? I have seen all kinds of weird things happen with premiums and all kinds of bullets. You get enough blood under your fingernails and you are bound to see some weird stuff that makes you scratch your head for the rest of your life. I have some of those bullet stories. I still can't figure them out. Flinch

I have shot a couple of thousand of the 139 grain Hornadys through 7mm mags. It was my favorite long range rock chuck bullet for many years. I am quite fond of them, that is why I asked if you were dogging on them or if it was a typo. I figured if they were that bad, I would have had something weird happen over the course of a couple of thousand rounds ;o). They are extremely accurate and really put the hurt on stuff. I used to buy them in bulk packs of 2,000 at a time for about $.08 a piece. I figured they would last me many years. They didn't last long at all. I would like to go back 10 years and "stock up" on all the Hornady seconds. I still have a couple of thousand, but they are going quick...especially with the 7mm-08. It is just too fun to shoot. Flinch

Flinch,

When did you first start shooting a 7mm-08? I know you used to shoot a 7mm RM and a long barreled .30-06.

I love the 139 Hornady SP. I have only shot them into mulies, but they have never stopped inside. Didn't get good accuracy from the BTSP but the flat base SP has been terrific.

140 btips flat out shoot in my 7mm-08, but I would prefer an Accubond or Partition if elk was on the menu. I do feel better about having an exit hole. Truth be told, I haven't shot enough elk to really know if one bullet is better than another.

I have hunted often, but only killed four. All four took a 160 Accubond launched from my 7mmRM. All four died quickly. One bullet did not exit and that was a really weird experience. I shot a cow quartering hard towards me, but ended up not finding a single drop of blood. Literally, no blood whatsoever, even when I walked up to her. I couldn't even find an entrance wound. Thank goodness for fresh snow, or I may have walked right past her as she ran over the ridge and slid about 30 feet off of the trail.

Once I began butchering her out, the trauma inside was amazing. The bullet definitely did its job, just couldn't have known had I not found her. The only thing I can think of is that the "crease" I hit between the front shoulder and the neck was soft enough not to open up quickly. Once through some flesh it looked like it should. I wonder if the bullet took out the heart and everything stopped pumping and that is why no blood from the mouth etc. I can see blood not making it out to the entrance wound with fat and muscle getting in the way.

FH

In my experience, few entrance holes provide much blood, if any on the front end of elk. The tissue and fat usually seals them up. I have experienced this a lot with elk frontal hits. Kind of strange, but happens a lot.

I still shoot a long barreled 7mm mag for elk, when I rifle hunt them. I primarily bow hunt them now (a lot less people and it is much warmer ;o). My primary deer/everything rifle is a 7mm-08. I shoot the 7mag a lot as well, but the 7mm-08 is just so dang fun to bang away with and only weighs 7 lbs.

I sold the long barreled .30-06 a while back, but it accounted for a lot of elk, moose and deer. I just hated the Model 70 action and won't own another one. I will have another one soon, but in a Remington. I dearly love the caliber, but the 7mm mag simply lights stuff up with more authority and has a much flatter trajectory past 400 yards. Okay, so I am a 7mm slut, but I am a good 7mm slut ;o) Flinch

The nosler partition is not without its problems, expecially if driven at high impact velocities. At such velocities, the front portion of the the bullet is subject to separation, and all is left is the solid rear protion of the bullet.

With the advent of the X bullet and the bonding process, it could be argued that the partion is now a premium bullet in "price" only.

Flame suit on.

GB

...agreed. I hate the damn things. Nothing like a premium bullet that sheds half it's weight on impact and works like a wad cutter after that. There are MUCH better bullets out there now. It was state of the art 30 years ago, but pales in comparison to many that are out now, in my own personal experience. Federal's Trophy Bonded bullet is the best of all worlds, in my experience. It expands like a ballistic tip on impact, but creates a major mushroom and plows through with a huge wound channel. The bonding process holds it all together at extreme velocity as well. I haven't been able to destroy one on critters. Flinch

I've actually heard veryu good things about Federal's Fusion ammo. Apparently, it expands well, penetrates well, retains its weight and does massive internal damage.