24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,564
L
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
L
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,564
Hence the New Covenant which supercedes the Old Covenant. But the Old Testament is still there.

GB1

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,715
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,715
Course, it's still relavent. 10 commandments are still in force.


"That's what happens when your leaders stop being an American and start being a politician." George S. Patton
What would Yoda do...your ass kick it he would.
[Linked Image]
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 501
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 501
Originally Posted by antlers
The point is, as the title of this thread asks, why was the Old Testament set aside? Some suggested that they didn't set it aside, that they 'still lived by it'.

Do you believe adulterers, disrespectful children, perjurers, drunken sons, and homosexuals should be put to death?

Do you eat shrimp or lobsters, pork chops or bacon, rabbits or blood sausage?

Do you think young women who are virgins and are not engaged, if raped, should have to marry their rapists?

If your wife helps you in a fight by grabbing the guy by the nuts who is whippin' you, do you think her hand should be cut off?


Do you believe in this stuff or not? It's from the Old Testament. Is it all or none? Or do you get to straddle both sides? Are you a non-practitioner, or a sloppy and inconsistent practitioner? Do you have to throw some of it out (like the stuff above) to make your belief system more palatable?

I think God is smart enough to see through fake ID's.

Allow me a couple sentences to address ONE of your questions.
First: I get the vibe that yours are not really questions, in that you truly want an answer, but want to attack the Bible (or Christianity, in general). I'm OK with that - not hurting me at all!
Second: Consider this command in step with society of that day. MAYBE this was because NO ONE else would every marry such a woman - in that day, and by forcing THE MAN to marry her, God was providing for HER well-being. Or would it have been better for her if this was the punishment: stone the man (and then too bad for you, but you will live alone and husbandless the rest of your life).
Do I know this was the case? of course not! and NO, that punishment doesn't SEEM to be just especially to us today. I'm saying we don't really know the whole situation but GOD does.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,614
Likes: 25
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,614
Likes: 25
Originally Posted by TF49

So, antlers, do you understand why I am not bound by the OT ceremonial laws?


Yep. As Sprint11 said..."The Law is not in effect anymore. The PERFECT sacrifice of Christ washed it all away and paid the price for all of our transgressions."

But if it's not in effect anymore, and you're not bound by it anymore, then you're not "living by it" anymore...and neither are the others who say they are!


Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,290
Likes: 1
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,290
Likes: 1
Antlers,

Yes, I think you are correct in that. I do not live by the ceremonial law. I do not say that I am. The follow-on question may be "do you believe in the OT laws?" The answer is still yes, but they do not apply to me.

Let me address the judicial laws in a few minutes.

Also note that there is hierarchy in the laws. Some are greater than others.


tf


The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

IC B2

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Wow...

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,533
Likes: 6
I
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
I
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,533
Likes: 6
By the arguments of some, how does anyone know which laws of the Old Testament were nullified by Jesus sacrifice? OK, some are no longer in effect. But how about the others. It also says not to kill peoole, tell lies, etc., you know.


Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.

Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,614
Likes: 25
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,614
Likes: 25
Originally Posted by MarkD

I get the vibe that yours are not really questions, in that you truly want an answer, but want to attack the Bible (or Christianity, in general).


Nope. They were simple questions. Just wanted an honest answer to at least one of em' from someone who claimed to still 'live by' the Old Testament. We were 4 pages into it before an honest attempt was even made!


Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Originally Posted by TF49
Re: antlers

Note this: OT Ceremonial laws DO NOT apply to me thanks to the blood sacrice of Jesus.

So, antlers, do you understand why I am not bound by the OT ceremonial laws?

More later....

tf


He said He came not to change it but fulfil it .If the Law had outlived its' usefullness , then -being God - He could have changed it .[I mean , who's gonna tell God what He can and can't do?] If you consider that the dietary LAWS were established for the good of the people , not for God's benefit , it's easier to look at the rest of the laws in that same light .

Eating pork in the desert with no refrigeration is a certain way to come up sick or dead , just to use one example .By the same token , His chosen people had to have a code of conduct that - unlike their neighbors - didn't change with each new ruler and wasn't grounded in situational ethics .Nobody has improved on the Ten Commandments as a blueprint for a just society .

It is amusing how non-believers want to argue Christian THeology by quoting the OT and the Gospels .That ain't where the Theology is found . You gotta get into the Letters to find that .

For some reason , the post I am responding to comes up down here :

Yeah, but Jesus said "I come not to change a jot nor a tittle of the Law," the Law being the first five books of the Old Testament. How, then, can you say you are not bound by Old Testament Law based on something Jesus did?


Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,097
Likes: 66
T
Campfire Sage
Offline
Campfire Sage
T
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,097
Likes: 66
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Originally Posted by TF49
Re: antlers

Note this: OT Ceremonial laws DO NOT apply to me thanks to the blood sacrice of Jesus.

So, antlers, do you understand why I am not bound by the OT ceremonial laws?

More later....

tf


Yeah, but Jesus said "I come not to change a jot nor a tittle of the Law," the Law being the first five books of the Old Testament. How, then, can you say you are not bound by Old Testament Law based on something Jesus did?
Jesus didn't change the law. He merely offered people liberty from its bondage.

IC B3

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
EVERY christian knows that only God Himsef could live comepletly in compliance with His commandments .I don't think anybody on here meant to imply that they lived in compliance with them .And in general parlance , "THE LAW" means the TEN .


Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Quote
There are, however, plenty of contradictions in the Old Testament.

Quote
Yep.

Uh-oh!

Off we go again!

(And the operative word is OFF!)

frown


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Originally Posted by antlers

No, my specific questions were not answered. Every question I asked remains unanswered by people here who say they still live by the Old Testament. Instead of "yes, I still believe that", or "no, I don't believe that", I was given explanations of 'why' those particular laws were written. It's been like asking questions of a politician...they address the subject of the question, and go on and on about it, without ever answering the question!


I do not know anyone here at the fire who lives under the Old Testament Law. Are there Hasidic Jews here?

Read this carefully:

UNDER CHRIST THE LAW IS FULFILLED AND CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAWS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Does that answer your questions.

It is like this. In some countries, like England or Canada, it would be against the law for me to carry a concealed handgun. But:
I AM AN AMERICAN LIVING IN AMERICA AND THE LAWS OF THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES DO NOT APPLY TO ME. I AM NOT BOUND UNDER THE FIREARMS LAWS OF ENGLAND OR CANADA AS LONG AS I AM IN AMERICA.


So the Old Testament is part of my Bible, I read it from time to time but I AM NOT UNDER OLD TESTAMENT LAW!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry but that is about as clear as I can make it.


The first time I shot myself in the head...

Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,043
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,043
Originally Posted by curdog4570
Seems like I recall that unless the bride's mother could produse the ruptured hymen from the wedding bed , the groom was entitled to ask for double [or maybe triple] the dowrey , so there were financial consequences for the de-flowering of a virgin.
hey curdog i would like to hear some more about this if you dont mind , just curious as i have never heard this before . thanks


IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE, MINE ARE ALL DEFECTIVE ..... TED NUGENT
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Unfotunately , when I said "seems like I recall " that's as close as I can get .I'm sure it was mentioned in passing in something I read but have no idea where or when .

I remember when I read it it struck me as too odd not to be true .Nobody makes up schitt like that !


Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,494
T
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
T
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,494
The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith. So, until you come to faith in Christ, the law still applies. After you come to Christ in faith and receive his perfect one time sacrifice for sin, you have no more need of a schoolmaster. Pretty basic stuff.

Read this prayerfully and see where the law fits in.

Ga�3:22-26 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,043
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,043
hey thats fine if ya cant remember, what i was hoping for was a bible reference so i could read it myself. maybe someone else can tell me where it is or where it originated from


IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE, MINE ARE ALL DEFECTIVE ..... TED NUGENT
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Originally Posted by curdog4570
� too odd not to be true. Nobody makes up schitt like that!

Oh no?

Search "blood libel" and study what the encyclop�dias have to say about it.


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
By the arguments of some, how does anyone know which laws of the Old Testament were nullified by Jesus sacrifice? OK, some are no longer in effect. But how about the others. It also says not to kill peoole, tell lies, etc., you know.


Zero. None of God's laws were nullified by Jesus but they were fulfilled or satisfied, however you want to say it. The old testament is called the original covenant or dispensation so new testament times are in the second or new covenant. Then the new covenant is made up of seven different dispensations for a lot of us Christians but there are many that just do not go along with that thought even though it is very plain. I choose not to argue with people as seldom is anyone going to change their mind so I just ask those that do not agree with me to lay their views out so I can take a look at what they have to say and hope that they do likewise.

Just my two bits worth.

Ivan


The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.


Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
Originally Posted by lmartin
� maybe someone else can tell me where it is or where it originated from

Studying skunk feces in the way that you suggest would be a better way to spend your time.


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















Page 4 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24



564 members (1beaver_shooter, 1badf350, 12344mag, 17CalFan, 06hunter59, 10gaugemag, 65 invisible), 14,439 guests, and 1,042 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,195,167
Posts18,542,956
Members74,058
Most Online21,066
May 26th, 2024


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.173s Queries: 55 (0.027s) Memory: 0.9167 MB (Peak: 1.0371 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-28 20:16:34 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS