Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire Question on the Bible

Fish 280:concerning my abscence and reappearance-shootist "inspired me".
Ricky:I appreciate the prayers.Your concern for my peace of mind is understandable but-in fact -not warranted.I harbor no resentment toward anyone.I just call bull$hit when I hear or see it.I could be wrong,but consider you as being sincere in your concern for the forum,but have you not done your part in turning it into a debating society?
Jim:I agree with you about everything you have said!
Sanlen:It took you 5 pages to figure out what should have been obvious all along:Ken IS a lot smarter than you.More importantly,he is much wiser.
Now God probably had all sorts of reasons for making Ken smarter than you and ol'shootist.I'm self-centered enough so that I assume it's so folks like me don't have to argue the content of scripture with folks like y'all!

Sanlen, Brother.....

Ken needs none of my defense, but as a brother I would 'defend' his motives...

A sometimes blunt and hard teacher he is...but the Holy Spirit tells me that he is writing as he has direction from that same Holy Spirit in you and I..Christ's gift to the church to lead and guide us into all truth..

That is not always immediately welcome for me or others

But we can get over that and receive what is needful..

Allow the Holy Spirit in you to take what he has said and apply it to your own life and heart.Take no offense.

He means no offense..His love for you, I and all those who truly seek to serve Christ and walk in the Spirit is true.

So our guides in the word might include this verse among many others:

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.


Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


And so when any teacher, preacher or prophet says something which would raise the old man that I was before Christ to do battle, I contemplate the fruit of the Holy Spirit and allow Him to reign...

And then there's this:

1st Corinthians 13:2
And though I have prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.


1Cr 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed , and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.


1Cr 13:4
Charity suffereth long, is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,


1Cr 13:5
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;


1Cr 13:6
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;


1Cr 13:7
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.


1Cr 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether prophecies, they shall fail; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall vanish away.


1Cr 13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

So, brother Sanlen, let us exercise love and patience and forebearance and be not easily provoked as it concerns any and all who come in the NAME of the Lord Jesus Christ..

There is much to learn and MUCH more to do which requires the body of Christ to stay focued on that which strengthens and is good..jim

Gene Williams, I also am a Christian who was literally pulled from the fire.
Bear with me while I ramble a bit..

My testimony would read like an episode of one of those old radio broadcasts of 'UNSHACKLED'.

About every human failing and weaknes I have done in spades.
About every carnal failure that a new Christian can be entrapped in I have experienced.

I take no pride in my former stubborness, nor do I revell in my stupidity and rebellion, argueing with the Holy Spirit over the years when the failures were all mine.

Suffice it to say that I am born again..many years now..IN Christ.

I know what it's like to be absolutely at the end of life...to have no hope..to run out of 'myself'..To be broken..To have my 'so-called life' destroyed and revealed for what it was...wasted.

To see the love of my human life sick and die..lose children.

Have other children in harm's way in this hateful war now for bad reasons.

But I am alive.The Spirit of Christ sustains me..Through Him I have overcome so much that many perish from..

( does that indicate I may be one of the "elect"..:)??
(tongue in cheek there for those who are fanatics about that)

He has a purpose for me..I have felt and seen and spoke and done His will over some years and so I know.

I may be a poor witness but my heart's desire is to be His witbness to His new life and God's love.
Jesus Christ, Yashua Messiah, is my savior and lord..


He has His hand on you also.His Holy Spirit is in you..guiding you..teaching you..

Have faith, hang in their by His power in you..
Don't give up on the brethren..we all are learning and should the Lord tarry, ain't any of us gonna get out of this alive..:)

You can count me as a friend who doesn't much know you but loves you... and as brother in Christ..jim

There are, in the fellowship of the Body, things that I call "diagnostic irritants" � spiritual, Biblical truths that diagnose your spiritual needs by irritating or even offending you. He who's irritated by the idea that Jesus is God, for example, needs to acknowledge that Jesus is God. He who's irritated by the idea that he needs to be born again needs to be born again. He who's offended by the idea that ... well, you get the point, I'm sure. Spiritually significant truths tend to be hard, blunt (and at the same time sharp), irritating, offensive. That's the nature of the way these truths affect the spiritually needy.

Someone asked Wesley, somewhat belligerently, "Why do you keep preaching 'You must be born again, you must be born again, you must be born again'?"

"Because," Wesley said, "you must be born again!"

Amen!

I've busted-up concrete with both sledge hammer (heavy, blunt) and power hammer (sharp, loud) � an experience not altogether unlike sharing crucial Biblical truths with some Christians.

I can't think of any Biblical truth, from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation, that doesn't irritate some folks who "believe in God."

.

Much obliged for the words.The ones I chastise on this board have one thing in common which I have pointed out before:Quick to provide instruction and correction-slow to share experiences which illustrate God's grace.I know more about you from your last post than can be discerned about the ones I have mentioned if one were to read every single post of theirs.
Just look how much "action" there is on this thread.All because of its' title.Look at the inattention given to other threads inviting shareing on experience of a spiritual nature.
I see way too much of the "old gene" in these guys.Give me a quart of whiskey 20 years ago and I would answer all the questions put to me about God and throw in plenty of scripture to boot.SOME of it -purely by accident-contained more truth than some "teaching"I see on here.Only thing is;back then I couldn't tell you one thing God had ever done for me.Now-it is all reversed.Plenty of folks can teach better than me.Nobody else can tell my story.What's important about my "story"?Just the God part-that's all.
I submit that perhaps I've shared more huntin' camps than some of these teachers.I talk on here JUST EXACTLY as I would at a huntin' camp.I'd call BULL$HITT when some drunk like I used to be started preaching like I used to preach and that's exactly what I see on here in places.
Do I think God appointed me to straighten out the "Pharisees"[as they have been called by someone else-I'd a done it first but was afraid I'd mis spell it]on here?
Nope.I'm doing it of my own free will and choice.
Is there a chance that I'm wrong in doing it?
Nope.The Spirit has had plenty of time and chances to correct me.
I don't see all the different denominations as necessarily bad.I'm dis agreeing with some men I certainly admire when I say that.I don't feel compelled to defend that position.It's mine by right.I'll relinquish it when God changes my mind.I reckon my name is still on the roster of a now defunct Baptist church but I don't go.I wouldn't CALL any of you "brother " in a hunting camp so I don't do it here.
I do fellowship with other like minded believers on a regular basis.You will see plenty of the fruit you speak of among us.I'm not out to impress anyone but I think you would recognize-solely by the grace of God,thru Jesus and the Spirit-the fruits of my actions,not my words.
I don't see much quotin' from James and Peter on here.They are my two favorite teachers.Not because they tell me what I want to hear but because I understand it.
I think it was Peter that said WE could be more certain than him and the prophets.I believe the "morning sun"he spoke of was not the KING JAMES BIBLE or any other bible but an indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I can't see that it makes any difference if reading the bible leads me to that indwelling or if the indwelling leads me to the bible to explain what happened to me.
You are wasting your time-not you ,Jim,I'm speaking editorially-trying to show me the difference by quoting scripture.I would yield to logic in the matter.
Thats my anwer to th question I started this with.

Gene,

God is working here in this thread. Maybe not how you or I would have anticipated, but He is working nonetheless.

Like you have spoke of before, we all find edification differently. I am not as moved by someone's spiritual experience as I am by an in-depth look at the things of God. I become excited when I gain a fuller understanding of Scripture, or begin to more fully grasp a concept or doctrine. The Word becomes more alive and I sense God's inspiriation and direction.

My dad is not that way, though he does enjoy a deep study. When he was saved, he literally saw the gates of Hell close. I doubt there is much study of any kind that will have as significant an impact as that vision.

Right! He formed us in our mother's womb-He didn't clone us.

I don't know if your dad got a look inside before the gates were closed.Even if he did,he may not feel led to share what he saw.Perhaps what I learned from my look into hell can be learned from sholarship-I don't know.I share it with you:
There are demons.
There are particular demons.
Some -perhaps all-require our permission to indwell us.We cooperate.In that sense,we are responsible for our predicament.Once posessed,however,we are powerless over the demon,so escape on our own is not possible.
All demons may be cast out.It is a black mark against modern day churches in the U.S. that this part of ministry is neglected and human beings die every day because of that neglect.
One particular type of demon is cast out only by prayer and fasting.Jesus,having authority over ALL demons could cast it out,his dicsiples could not.The reason?The prayer and fasting has to be done by the one posessed,not the exorcist.
To participate in this endeavor,the "exorcist" must meet one requirement:He must-and humans can only achieve this for a short span of time-allow God to remove from him all remnants of self.He must pray as the one posessed directs him to pray[the prayer obviously will not contradict the teachings of the bible]and he may add any prayer of his own.
The young seminary student who helped me didn't even know he was casting out a demon!I selected him because the Spirit told me I could trust him.I asked him to pray with me and asked him to say certain words that had no meaning for him but when he spoke the words,the demon left.

From all my former posts,you might guess that I'm speaking of Demon Rum or alcoholism.Nope!
Once I had "fasted"-God removed the obsession to drink-I discovered I had something blocking me from God's further help for me.This "discovery"was obviously from the Spirit.The "something" was a demon.
I have no fear of the demonic world that I know exists.God showed it to me from the vantage point of the palm of His hand.I do believe,though,that should I break my fast and drink again,I would be inviting 8,not 1,demons in.
My experiece is not fanciful or isolated.It's common in my circles.I'm told it is common in the missionary fields.
Dr.Carl Jung developed a treatment he called"moral physcology" to deal with what he termed a form of demon posession.
It is real.The cure is real.The victims are plentiful.If they get help,it will be from laypersons such as yourself;The ministers are too busy preaching BULL$HITT.!
Never turn down a person who asks you to pray with'em Blaine,you just might cast out a demon!

Gene,

I have been involved in the type of spiritual warfare you are speaking of. It was creepy. The evil presence was very frightening. I used to be frightened by that sense of evil ( a sensation familiar to almost everyone), even though I knew full well evil has no power over Chrisitans.

Then one day I was overwhelmed by the presence of God. This was many years ago, when as I young man I was seeking a feeling of God's presence. Everyone else in my Pentecostal/Charisimatic churches seemed to have this enormous emotional connection with God, and I sought after that.

Though that approach is fine for some, it was a mistake for me, because God has not made me that way. God decided to humor me. A sense of His presence overcame me. His presence was so good, so good beyond any human imagination it was terrible. At that moment, I knew what Isaiah meant when he said he was "un-done". It was as if the light of God's glory was illuminating me to the point of making my physical and spiritual self transparent and my soul was fading into oblivion.

At that point, I came to more fully understand how much greater God's goodness is than my own goodness. In fact, on a scale of 1 to a ten-trillion, both my goodness and the evilness of Hell are a one, where as God's goodness is beyond ten-trillion. I also realized I felt much more comfortable with the "creepy evil presence" than I felt with a serious dose of God's goodness.

"� on a scale of 1 to a ten-trillion, both my goodness and the evilness of Hell are a one, where as God's goodness is beyond ten-trillion."

"When we've been there ten thousand years,
Bright-shining as the sun,
There's no less days
To sing God's praise
Than when we first begun."

Ol' Cap'n Newton understood infinity!

.

When I met God in the fullness of His goodness and mercy , the wrongs I had done others - and they were many - were , in the same ratio you used, dwarfed by the wrongs I had done Him.

this is hard - but true- stuff, boys. the more often we remember it, the better, as long as it doesn't let guilt get back ahold of us.

I am new to this thread and so I will jump in on subjects I find interesting. Ken is right about the Bible numbering system of the Bible. Ken, may I please add these things to what you said.
[color:"red"] [/color]


�In the earliest Hebrew manuscripts the Bible was divided into verses, but the verses were not numbered and there was no division into chapters. The divisions into Chapters were added in Christian Bibles by the English Archbishop Stephen Langton in the 13th century. The verse numbers were only adopted in an even later period and as a result different Bibles have different verse numbering systems to this day. The verse numbers in Hebrew Bibles are at times off by one or more verses from the English verse numbers. A common cause for this is that English Bibles do not count introductory verses in the numbering system, whereas the Hebrew system does. For example, Psalms 20,1 in the Hebrew is not counted in the English Bible as a verse and is instead considered a "supernumerary" title. As a result Psalms 20,2 in the Hebrew is Psalms 20,1 in the English. Neither numbering system is "correct" or "better" since both are arbitrary systems used for convenience without any religious significance. Although the numbering of verses in the Hebrew Bible is a late innovation, the actual division into (un-numbered) verses is an original part of the text, which goes back to the time of the prophets.�
By the Karite Korner

Numerical values in the Hebrew has been around as long as the letters. A good place to start to learn Hebrew numbers is on this link. http://hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_Eight/unit_eight.html
Many in our congregation are learning Hebrew and it is fun. No, you don�t have to learn them but I really enjoy it. It's me, not you. Let God lead you as he will.


Blessings

30-30 Man

The idea that the letters and words of worshiped writing have magical, mystical values understandable only by the especially gifted is a pagan notion that's older than our Bible. It's straight out of ancient witchcraft � and not really out of witchcraft, at that.

.

I know - suspect would be more accurate - a very little about the " gnostic " teachings on the bible .

How about a brief summation of the type [and dangers ] of this teaching ? From both of you.

I've heard it is still around would like to be able to spot it.

Gnosticism begins with "secret knowledge", as opposed to the Gospel which is openly proclaimed. There is a lot more to it--like the "Son" not being as perfect as the Father, but I'll let Ken handle that.

Islam incorporates Gnostic flavors of Christianity into it's "scripture". It was the prevalent version of Christianity in the area Mohammed lived and the version that made it into the Koran. That is why Muslims may have misunderstandings of what Christians believe. They have been taught we believe things most of us don't.

gnostic-like stuff (the son not quite the equal of the Father) appears to be a key basis of the jw and lds cults.

Fish,

That was my thought exactly when a teacher diagrammed Second Century Gnosticism was for me. At first look it is so close to Christianity, but in reality it couldn't be farther away...............

Two points:

� Early on, I turned away from the textbooks and courses on the cults. I'd rather spend my time learning the Light of Right and Truth (God through the Bible) and let it illuminate the faults of the cults. (New cults sprout-up almost daily and aren't covered in the books and courses that tell us what's wrong with the few old ones that they deal with. Old teachings are useless to help us deal with new cults.)

� It's the attractive, tempting, tasty bait that makes the trap deadly. So it's common for cults to present the basic facts of the gospel very clearly and attractively at first, then when they have you hooked, to go haywire with anti-Christian dilutions and pollutions.

For two decades plus, my ministry focused (by invitation, not by my initiative) on helping deceived Christians, who were increasingly aware that they'd been entrapped, escape the cults that had brought them to a saving knowledge of the Lord.

Loyalty to the human instruments of their conversion to Christianity was the biggest barrier of all. These dear souls were beginning to see that much that they'd been taught as "Christian" or "Biblical" was in fact satanic, but they also knew that much that they'd been taught was "the straight skinny" on true Christianity.

They didn't know whose teaching to trust and whose to reject. (No wonder!) Exegesis had to be unshakably sound for them to accept it. Fortunately, they had a strong appetite for "it is written" and a growing distaste for "I think" and interpretations that weren't strictly and precisely documented.

.