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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,792 Likes: 2 |
I would say the same in regards to someone driving a truck at me. Reality.....
George I'm done for. Your razor wit has cut my arguments to ribbons, sir. I concede defeat. I wasn't going for razor wit. You are correct, though, most of your arguments are done before they leave your mouth. You expect us to believe you're going to deal with muggers, etc. with a .45 yet you can't even deal with someone who was, supposedly, a direct threat to your life. Reality..... George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Gus may be on to something, but I doubt if it what he intended.
States where medical marijuana is legal. 1. Alaska 2. Arizona 3. California 4. Colorado 5. DC 6. Hawaii 7. Maine 8. Michigan 9. Montana 10. Nevada 11. New Jersey 12. New Mexico 13. Oregon 14. Rhode Island 15. Vermont 16. Washington
States with highest average income.
1 Maryland 2 New Jersey 3 Connecticut 4 Alaska 5 Hawaii 6 Massachusetts 7 New Hampshire 8 Virginia District of Columbia 9 California 10 Delaware 11 Washington 12 Minnesota 13 Colorado 14 Utah 15 New York 16 Rhode Island 17 Illinois 18 Nevada 19 Wyoming 20 Vermont 21 Wisconsin 22 Pennsylvania 23 Arizona 24 Oregon 25 Texas 26 Iowa 27 North Dakota 28 Kansas 29 Georgia 30 Nebraska 31 Maine 32 Indiana 33 Ohio 34 Michigan 35 Missouri 36 South Dakota 37 Idaho 38 Florida 39 North Carolina 40 New Mexico 41 Louisiana 42 South Carolina 43 Montana 44 Tennessee 45 Oklahoma 46 Alabama 47 Kentucky 48 Arkansas 49 West Virginia 50 Mississippi IIRC another 10 states have some form of medical marijuana act working its way through their state legislature.....only state i can think of thats put it to the voters and its been turned down lately is South Dakota which came as a surprise to alot of those there given what some residents told me when i was down there mid November as it was predicted to pass.... though not in the quoted post i see sometimes that some claim that the medical marijuana legislation is put up to vote so liberals can get other agendas through by getting ppl out to vote....one lil flaw in that logic is in 2004 when Montana passed our medical marijuana act roughly the same number of ppl voted for the act as voted for Bush over Kerry.....using the logic stated wouldnt Kerry have carried Montana?
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,341 |
The "war on drugs" - is as misguided as any war in history - and a bigger failure than any of them.
Will we ever learn? Anyone who's ever studied the history of the prohibition - knows how futile that way of thinking is - at least when it comes to prohibiting people from doing what they want to do.
To start, I think we need to immediately totally legalize cannabis. If anyone wants to - they should be able to grow what ever amount they want to. Every smoker can have his plants. The bottom will fall out of the market - organized crime will loose their biggest source of revenue, and soon afterwards - it will cease to be profitable to grow. It's often the cannabis trade that finances the harder stuff. It gets traded for harder stuff. With the hard drugs - and this is radical - I think we should stop trying to treat use as a crime - and start treating it's use as a societal problem.
The great majority of hard-drug users are the poorest and most vulnerable and desperate members of society. They need help - not prison time.
In some countries (like Norway) they can go to a medical center - and get their drug - for free. There, professionals, will help them, guide them, monitor them and council them. The only place they can get their free drugs - is to attend the sessions designed to help them get their lives together.
You might still end up with a junkie - but now you have a junkie living within society - instead of having a junkie that needs to expose themselves and others to HIV/AIDS, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Hepatitis etc. They won't have to prostitute themselves, they won't have to steal hundreds of dollars per day to support their habit and they won't have do do anything illegal to exist. But - at least they'd have hope.
I know this type of thinking doesn't sit well with some conservatives. It's easier to say "kill 'em all" which will never happen anyways, and when the time comes that it's your relative or friend that they're talking about killing - then your views will change - and they change damn fast.
According to most studies - the severity of the sentence - is unrelated to the law's effectiveness in diminishing drug use. Virtually every study on the drug trade shows that. Countries with mandatory death sentences - have as much addiction problems as counties with lax laws.
The only countries that seem to actually be reducing hard drug use - are the ones that treat addiction as an illness, and as a societal problem. The societies with the most people locked up in prisons - are the same societies that presently have the biggest drug problems.
In Vancouver, for example, they now have "shooting galleries" where the heroin addicts can do their drugs. While they are there, they get counseling, guidance and medical care.
But, because they still have to prostitute themselves - or steal - to buy those same drugs - the programs today in Canada aren't as efficient as they could be. But - even as they are designed - it's a start in the right direction. And - interestingly enough - even the beat cops on the downtown east side, see those sites as part of the solution.
Our societies have just about perfected what doesn't work.
It's time we tried some radical new ideas - and tried to find what does work. What ya presented there is very interesting; it seems to make some sense.
The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965 |
The "war on drugs" - is as misguided as any war in history - and a bigger failure than any of them.
Will we ever learn? Anyone who's ever studied the history of the prohibition - knows how futile that way of thinking is - at least when it comes to prohibiting people from doing what they want to do.
To start, I think we need to immediately totally legalize cannabis. If anyone wants to - they should be able to grow what ever amount they want to. Every smoker can have his plants. The bottom will fall out of the market - organized crime will loose their biggest source of revenue, and soon afterwards - it will cease to be profitable to grow. It's often the cannabis trade that finances the harder stuff. It gets traded for harder stuff. With the hard drugs - and this is radical - I think we should stop trying to treat use as a crime - and start treating it's use as a societal problem.
The great majority of hard-drug users are the poorest and most vulnerable and desperate members of society. They need help - not prison time.
In some countries (like Norway) they can go to a medical center - and get their drug - for free. There, professionals, will help them, guide them, monitor them and council them. The only place they can get their free drugs - is to attend the sessions designed to help them get their lives together.
You might still end up with a junkie - but now you have a junkie living within society - instead of having a junkie that needs to expose themselves and others to HIV/AIDS, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Hepatitis etc. They won't have to prostitute themselves, they won't have to steal hundreds of dollars per day to support their habit and they won't have do do anything illegal to exist. But - at least they'd have hope.
I know this type of thinking doesn't sit well with some conservatives. It's easier to say "kill 'em all" which will never happen anyways, and when the time comes that it's your relative or friend that they're talking about killing - then your views will change - and they change damn fast.
According to most studies - the severity of the sentence - is unrelated to the law's effectiveness in diminishing drug use. Virtually every study on the drug trade shows that. Countries with mandatory death sentences - have as much addiction problems as counties with lax laws.
The only countries that seem to actually be reducing hard drug use - are the ones that treat addiction as an illness, and as a societal problem. The societies with the most people locked up in prisons - are the same societies that presently have the biggest drug problems.
In Vancouver, for example, they now have "shooting galleries" where the heroin addicts can do their drugs. While they are there, they get counseling, guidance and medical care.
But, because they still have to prostitute themselves - or steal - to buy those same drugs - the programs today in Canada aren't as efficient as they could be. But - even as they are designed - it's a start in the right direction. And - interestingly enough - even the beat cops on the downtown east side, see those sites as part of the solution.
Our societies have just about perfected what doesn't work.
It's time we tried some radical new ideas - and tried to find what does work. What ya presented there is very interesting; it seems to make some sense. Agreed. It's not everyday I agree with Charlie and Brian. And for that, dear Lord, I am grateful!
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
States that allow medical marijuana use/sales. Pat you're one of the most sensible posters on here, consistently. I applaud you.
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Posts: 11,738
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738 |
Supply-side economics didn't work. AT least not for drugs.
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
"In Vancouver, for example, they now have "shooting galleries" where the heroin addicts can do their drugs. While they are there, they get counseling, guidance and medical care."
Hey,.....holding that completely bizarre fiasco up as some sorta' icon is crazy, Bud.
It's a block we've been around before here on this site, too.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,341 |
The "war on drugs" - is as misguided as any war in history - and a bigger failure than any of them.
Will we ever learn? Anyone who's ever studied the history of the prohibition - knows how futile that way of thinking is - at least when it comes to prohibiting people from doing what they want to do.
To start, I think we need to immediately totally legalize cannabis. If anyone wants to - they should be able to grow what ever amount they want to. Every smoker can have his plants. The bottom will fall out of the market - organized crime will loose their biggest source of revenue, and soon afterwards - it will cease to be profitable to grow. It's often the cannabis trade that finances the harder stuff. It gets traded for harder stuff. With the hard drugs - and this is radical - I think we should stop trying to treat use as a crime - and start treating it's use as a societal problem.
The great majority of hard-drug users are the poorest and most vulnerable and desperate members of society. They need help - not prison time.
In some countries (like Norway) they can go to a medical center - and get their drug - for free. There, professionals, will help them, guide them, monitor them and council them. The only place they can get their free drugs - is to attend the sessions designed to help them get their lives together.
You might still end up with a junkie - but now you have a junkie living within society - instead of having a junkie that needs to expose themselves and others to HIV/AIDS, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Hepatitis etc. They won't have to prostitute themselves, they won't have to steal hundreds of dollars per day to support their habit and they won't have do do anything illegal to exist. But - at least they'd have hope.
I know this type of thinking doesn't sit well with some conservatives. It's easier to say "kill 'em all" which will never happen anyways, and when the time comes that it's your relative or friend that they're talking about killing - then your views will change - and they change damn fast.
According to most studies - the severity of the sentence - is unrelated to the law's effectiveness in diminishing drug use. Virtually every study on the drug trade shows that. Countries with mandatory death sentences - have as much addiction problems as counties with lax laws.
The only countries that seem to actually be reducing hard drug use - are the ones that treat addiction as an illness, and as a societal problem. The societies with the most people locked up in prisons - are the same societies that presently have the biggest drug problems.
In Vancouver, for example, they now have "shooting galleries" where the heroin addicts can do their drugs. While they are there, they get counseling, guidance and medical care.
But, because they still have to prostitute themselves - or steal - to buy those same drugs - the programs today in Canada aren't as efficient as they could be. But - even as they are designed - it's a start in the right direction. And - interestingly enough - even the beat cops on the downtown east side, see those sites as part of the solution.
Our societies have just about perfected what doesn't work.
It's time we tried some radical new ideas - and tried to find what does work. What ya presented there is very interesting; it seems to make some sense. Agreed. It's not everyday I agree with Charlie and Brian. And for that, dear Lord, I am grateful! Its good when your bulb lights up, eh.
The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,244 |
I think my tax dollars already go for enough bullshit... Quite frankly, I'd rather they go for some DEA goon than a needle exchange program, rehab program, social worker salary. You're just exchanging a door-kicking program for a hand-holding program; they both have an interest in promoting their continued existance. At least with one you get high-speed guns and cool-looking sunglasses.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,551 |
Our nation is already bankrupt. How do we pay for these feel good programs?
"I Birn Quhil I Se" MacLeod of Lewis I Burn While I See Hold Fast MacLeod of Harris
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Supply-side economics didn't work. AT least not for drugs. Mentally handicapped folk working at McDonald's may work okay, but as college prof's, not so much.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
with pot if yah grow your own its no more harmful to the environment than any other crop....
with heroin i can grow opium poppies in my front yard, cook up heroin in my kitchen and harm no one, same with cocaine....
cooking meth not only [bleep] up your place it can very well [bleep] up your neighbors.....
You can't readily manufacture cocaine and heroin out of raw materials here in the states or it would already be being done just like Meth and Pot. actually have a state legalize teh medicinal use of these plants and not just the pharmaceutical extracts from them and i could.....there are only two problems.... #1 i need more square footage than for marijuana cause in the case of poppies they are pretty short plants and in the case of coca the active chemical is a tiny portion of the plant....if poppies grew 8 foot tall like pot plants i could do it with less square feet.... #2 in the case of cocaine i run into a problem of the plant liking a certain microclimate........give me the right chunck of ground in California and i could easily supply myself.... the reason ppl dont do it in the states is its near impossible to hide what your trying to do with a couple acres of poppies and getting coca plants in the states is a beotch.....
Last edited by rattler; 01/27/11.
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I think my tax dollars already go for enough bullshit... Quite frankly, I'd rather they go for some DEA goon than a needle exchange program, rehab program, social worker salary. You're just exchanging a door-kicking program for a hand-holding program; they both have an interest in promoting their continued existance. At least with one you get high-speed guns and cool-looking sunglasses. No, I ain't. Several of y'all are reading stuff into my posts that ain't there. Maybe these rehab programs and such are a good idea. I don't know, but I do know I don't want to foot the bill for them. My thought is that we don't have money for all the wars, we don't have money for all the LE. We don't have money for all the prisons and we don't have all the money for welfare. By welfare I mean what you are calling "hand holding programs" and you can lump all the counseling and shixt in with that. I want the cops out chasing down killers and rapists. I want the Border Patrol kicking asss on illegals. I want the soldiers home where they ain't getting kilt every day and where maybe they can back up the BP and keep us from having a dirty bomb or anthrax sewn in Houston or Tulsa. I want teachers teaching school and highway workers mowing the ditches and fixing the dammed roads. What I don't need is people kicking my neighbor's door in and arresting him 'cause he decided to toke up. I don't smoke dope or do meth. The extent of my drug taking is the odd Ibu or aspirin and maybe a Rolaids. I don't like my neighbor too much either. I just think with all this talk of the Chinese forclosing on us that maybe we need to get out ahead of some of this shixt.
Last edited by ColeYounger; 01/27/11.
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We need to intensify the war on drugs. There's a few small towns around here that don't have a prison.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
with pot if yah grow your own its no more harmful to the environment than any other crop....
with heroin i can grow opium poppies in my front yard, cook up heroin in my kitchen and harm no one, same with cocaine....
cooking meth not only [bleep] up your place it can very well [bleep] up your neighbors.....
You can't readily manufacture cocaine and heroin out of raw materials here in the states or it would already be being done just like Meth and Pot. actually have a state legalize teh medicinal use of these plants and not just the pharmaceutical extracts from them and i could.....there are only two problems.... #1 i need more square footage than for marijuana cause in the case of poppies they are pretty short plants and in the case of coca the active chemical is a tiny portion of the plant....if poppies grew 8 foot tall like pot plants i could do it with less square feet.... #2 in the case of cocaine i run into a problem of the plant liking a certain microclimate........give me the right chunck of ground in California and i could easily supply myself.... the reason ppl dont do it in the states is its near impossible to hide what your trying to do with a couple acres of poppies and getting coca plants in the states is a beotch..... That's not the way I understand it from having seen it discussed in the odd article over the years, but I surrender to your expertise on the subject.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
with pot if yah grow your own its no more harmful to the environment than any other crop....
with heroin i can grow opium poppies in my front yard, cook up heroin in my kitchen and harm no one, same with cocaine....
cooking meth not only [bleep] up your place it can very well [bleep] up your neighbors.....
You can't readily manufacture cocaine and heroin out of raw materials here in the states or it would already be being done just like Meth and Pot. actually have a state legalize teh medicinal use of these plants and not just the pharmaceutical extracts from them and i could.....there are only two problems.... #1 i need more square footage than for marijuana cause in the case of poppies they are pretty short plants and in the case of coca the active chemical is a tiny portion of the plant....if poppies grew 8 foot tall like pot plants i could do it with less square feet.... #2 in the case of cocaine i run into a problem of the plant liking a certain microclimate........give me the right chunck of ground in California and i could easily supply myself.... the reason ppl dont do it in the states is its near impossible to hide what your trying to do with a couple acres of poppies and getting coca plants in the states is a beotch..... That's not the way I understand it from having seen it discussed in the odd article over the years, but I surrender to your expertise on the subject. i spend alo of time trying to figure out how to get plants that shouldnt grow here to grow here.....chit thats way more touchy than an annual like an opium poppy or a bush like coca where i just need the raw leaf......now trying to figure out how to harvest fruit from a tree that needs a 200 day growing season when you go 130 between killing frosts is a beotch....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
Interesting post by BCBrian and in part I agree with it.
What happens though when you apply this ideology to meth or crack heads?
Give a heroin addict a little shot and he's good to go. Doesn't work that way with with meth or crack. Addicts can't get enough. They want to go on non-stop drug binges for days on end.
So, how do you deal with that?
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
Interesting post by BCBrian and in part I agree with it.
What happens though when you apply this ideology to meth or crack heads?
Give a heroin addict a little shot and he's good to go. Doesn't work that way with with meth or crack. Addicts can't get enough. They want to go on non-stop drug binges for days on end.
So, how do you deal with that?
its a royal beotch finding a solution that works for someone that likes stimulants......depressants like heroin is easy as hell in comparison.....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,502 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,502 Likes: 1 |
I think the war on drugs has become an industry, in and of itself. It's a huge bureacracy whose primary goals are expansion and self-preservation. It's also a dismal failure. It's about as effective as the prohibition on alcohol was, and has the same effect on organized crime as the prohibition on alcohol did...it creates a huge illegal market for the illegal product, and makes the criminals tremendously rich and powerful. There's gotta be a better way. I don't know what it is...I just know what it's not!
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
Interesting post by BCBrian and in part I agree with it.
What happens though when you apply this ideology to meth or crack heads?
Give a heroin addict a little shot and he's good to go. Doesn't work that way with with meth or crack. Addicts can't get enough. They want to go on non-stop drug binges for days on end.
So, how do you deal with that?
no clue, actually. what would Terrence McKenna have to say? the plant derived chemicals remain with us, trying to communicate,perhaps?
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