Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing excessive headspace on a 280 Rem. rebarrel job

I recently had a guy, return a rifle build and upon shooting it I notice a lot of web stretch and had trouble full lenght sizing the case , that's what set me off too something being ascue, anyhow I ordered a go gauge and vice and wrench to see what was going on, after receiving the tools and pulling this thing apart, I proceded to check headspace using the recoil lug sent with the rifle , unaltered, I was able to put 2 peices of masking tape and 1 piece of scotch tape on their and close the bolt, what do you think ?? excessive or feild gauge material , now this was on a m700 and the guy was supposed to cut me and set me up for a minimum spec. chamber, I miked this out to 10 thousands over the go gauge, I didn't order a no go gauge, and don't know the difference between them, I honestly think there was more like 12 to 14 1000's in their, this could probrably have been dangerous and hurt someone ?? this guy came highly recommended from a source that is making some of the most sought after barrel's out their today, I know everybody has a bad day, but this is extreme, I know your all scratching your head's going why didn't you just call and send the rifle back for him to check or correct it ?? well that may sound easy , but I initially waited 2 year's for this guy to get this project done, I haven't even called him to tell him, I just said you know what I am going to fix this myself and go on, so I got some wet sanding paper and you got it ,sanded that puppy down 10 thousands or so, the recoil lug that is, put it back together and that rifle is shooting fine, what do you think I should do about this guy, call him out or let it be ?? I know this is [bleep] up , but hey it get's worse , he also built a rifle for my wife, and sent it too me when completed, so I shot it, but when I extracted the case their was a distinct ring all the way around the case, called him on that one and sent it to him for fixing, couple weeks later got it home, shot it, only too find, you got it excessive headspace, had to do the same thing with this gun, I had two rifle's built by two different smith's in the same cartridge, one for me and one for her, both were to be min. spec chamber's , the other guy's headspace right on the $, place a peice of scotchtape on the go gauge,bang the bolt doesn't close, just like it should be about 2 thousands the other guy 12 or more, come on , just shiit work Ha, anyhow sorry to be long winded, but sometime's you don't get what you paid for you get [bleep], guy's I only bring this up because if your going to take somebody's $ try and at least do a good job, it's not like their were any time restraints, I think what happened is this guy is into building custom high $ rigs
total build's $3000 + rig's, and I came to him in a lull if you will and asked him to do a lowly rebarrel job and their was no incentive to do a good job when thing's got busy so he half assed it and wala you get the shaft, he is just lucky that I didn't get hurt or I would have had his ass, oh yea he goes by the initials of HF and if your thinking of using such a guy avoid it like the plague , their I had my moment and I feel better, and the funny thing is he seemed like a nice guy and thought we had a good repour over the 2 year wait, do your homework before you spend you cash !! sorry to be so long winded it felt like therapy and it just all came out. oh yea and the funny thing is I paid him in full up front, 1500 big ones go figure

There are other things to be aware of on a 700Rem. if you were able to remove 10thos or more off the recoil lug with sand paper, which must have been quite a feet. Then you also move the bolt face into the barrel. You may have to remove some metal from the face of you bolt. If you don't have to---I would say this guy is way out of line on more than just head space. You should have someone with a lathe help you out.

Wow.............

Yeah. And DO NOT alter the bolt.

yea tell me about the whao, I have shot the gun and thought I may have problems with piercing primer's, but so far so good, I thought that by taking a few thousands off the lug that would reduce headspace, what else should I be looking for ??? I am not a smith, this is the 1st time I have ever done anything like this, I just couldn't send this gun back to this guy anymore, I have lost all faith in him and wanted to try this before going with someone else, I would really appreciate any help, man I am all ear's, the gun it seem's was touched up around the action, bolt face ,back of lug's, I am going to shoot it tommorow again and see exactly where I am at with it being concentric, thus far I have shot it at only 60 yrd's and it group well and brass looked good, honest to god guy's when I shot this initially,I tried to full lenght size the cases and they were so long with headspace and web stretch that I couldn't get a case inside the die all the way , the die was all the way down to the shell holder , minus less than a qaurter turn and their was still an quite a bit left outside of the die 1/8 inch plus, I thought maybe it's the die lenght, then I started looking into the headspace issue and that's were I am at now

HOLY [bleep]! I am no gunsmith but for a brief time in my life (3 years) I was a machinist and I have spun a thing or two on a lathe. 14+ thousandths off. Was he friggin drunk, guessing or intentionally screwing it up? He should be told how screwed up his work was and asked how and why it happened. Anyone who is a machinist/gunsmith and has any pride in their work would want to know if they dicked something up that bad and would want the opportunity to make good on it. Before I had someone touch it or do anything myself I would tell him what is going on. Maybe it's something simple but it sure doesn't sound like it.

yea your probably right, so here is what I am going to do, tommorrow I am going to call this guy and tell him the situation and see how he wants to proceed, if he throws a .200 or ever a .190 lug in this thing he is going to [bleep], I am telling you that before I started sanding I had .188 and I shave dit down to .178 and I still have 4 thousands of HS, I can get a piece of blue painter's tape on the back of a go gauge and still close the bolt after MOD's, the funny thing is my wife's rifle wasn't much better, easiest way to determine HS at this junctor, screw in the barrel till you get around 2 thousands and measure the gap between barrel shoulder and action face I suppose , and you have your recoil lug measurement, at present which is .176 for two thous. I would prefer the .200 stock lug or .25 and that is going to require some lath work, well see,will keep you informed, thank's for listening

Why don't you call him, and see what transpires, before coming back on here, frothing at the mouth?

Give him an honest chance to explain and correct, before you have a stroke!

And, by sanding, disassembling, shade-tree-smithing, continuing to shoot it and mess with it, you're only decreasing your chances of a good resolution with the guy.

Sanding the lug, without taking other measures along with it, sets you up for heartache. This thing needs chucked up and done right, not guessing at it on the kitchen table.

If he genuinely screwed up, and you sent it back immediately, you'd have a solid case.

At this point, he's not out of line to wash his hands of the whole thing.

yep.

To bad mouth the man without giving him a chance to make it right is bullshit , and your name must be Richard Cranium !

While the OP went about this issue incorrectly he didn't badmouth anyone because he didn't name any names.

You need to deal with your smith before you have heart failure. If it is out of spec it will be easy to repair. I certainly wouldn't fool with the recoil lug. You will be a week surfacing it and it won't be flat.
Butch

Lets see, you bought a go gauge, a vise and a wrench and "sanded" 10 1000's off the lug using layers of tape and the go gauge as a guide. At what point was you planning on taking an actual measurement so you know exactly what you have?

As my gunsmith/machinist buddy says in situations like this, "Measure with chalk".

And....I bet both sides of the lug are still square with the receiver...

guy's let me tell you something if your in the business of putting together hyperacurrate rifle's that will shoot 1/4 inch or less at 100 yrd's and you mess up to this level, where someone might get hurt, you don't belong in this business, and to do it on 2 seperate rifle's,and don't think I am frothing at the mouth on this, yea I may be doing shade tree mechanic work, but I would rather learn from minor mistakes than give someone so blatently disingenuine the chance to correct his major F -- up after waiting the 2 year's I did to get this peice of shiit, you spend your hard earned coin and tell me you feel any different , like I said we all have bad day's but , this is just lack of atterntion to detail and detail in this game is where he make's his living and people are putting their trust and $ on it . sorry if i offend but my gun's have been back and forth to this guy several time 's and their still not right and everytime they get sent it cost me $ around 60 buck's from alaska , as we speak I am out 250 in this thing for shipping and a vise and wrench to figure out what should have been done initially, and I either put my trust in him again or I am out another 500 buck's to have someone correct his lack of attention or intention to ship it this way in the first place, at this point I may take some measurement's and just order 2 lug's cut to those spec.'s from ptg and call it a day, because it;s going to cost me the same for shipping, can you see either way I get the screw!! trust me guy's I had 6 rifle's trued and rebarrel last year and 4 of them from a different smith and they are the best rifle's I have ever shot, and then there's this guy, I am living with the 2 extremes on this one and $ don't grow on tree's for me, I must have been kidding myself I thought if you used a professional you got professional result's, what was I thinking, sorry for the soap guy's thank's for listening, and yes I put a mic on the lug, and when was the last time you tried to sand a lug for 10 thou. it took all of 20 minute's and your right it's not sqaure, but it gave me a starting point as to what I will need to correct a long chamber, look guy's like I said I am not a smith, but if I get a squared lug cut to the dimension's to give me 3 thou. clearance and he did sqaure everything else, shouldn't this work???

Probably not. The bolt will hit the back of the barrel or will probably to close to the back of the barrel.
If I were you and I'm not, I would send it to Redneck, Malm, or one of several others that frequent this board.
Butch

I am missing the thinking about why you keep sending rifles to him. miles

I would take the loss from this smith and find another that hopefully can fix what you have. Hopefully the new smith can fix this mess you have on both rifles. On the excessive head space is this an issue of the chamber being reamed too deep in the barrel? Would taking some stock off the barrel work and resetting it in the receiver????? Again, I never was a gunsmith but had some friends that were and watched from afar.