Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Berger Hunting Bullets in VLD

That is a good question Flinch. I am usually hunting with the guy on a regular basis, but moved away about a year and a half ago, or else I would have seen it first hand.

He swears by it, and will continue to use it. As said before, it dropped the deer in its tracks. I was just making the observation that the bullet didnt penetrate, that's all.

I am appreciating other's experiences here at the campfire, and the knowledge they have learned during their experiences.

joe

I dont think so, I had a clean view of his vitals. The shoot wasnt rushed or anything. I had snuck up to some round bails and was shooting over the top of them and he was on a slight elevation in the field.

Im sure every manufacture has had a bullet fail to perform at one time or another. I have switched to Barnes since this incident, although im looking at the bergers now due to the higher BC's. At least with Barnes, worst case scenario of a bullet failing to perform leaves you with a soild.

jolintaxidermy,

My guess is that the large entrance hole was not caused by the bullet expanding right there, but by bone being blown back out through the skin when the bullet did expand. This is based on seeing a LOT of VLD's used on big game, including shooting into bone, and doing a bunch of autopsies--NOT theory.

Since you weren't there, and your friend didn't really analyzed what happened, I would say my experience is more valid than the photo. I have seen MUCH larger entrance holes from Barnes TSX's, including one from a 140-grain .270 on a coyote--which did NOT "explode" on impact.

All a large entrance hole proves is that SOMETHING made a big hole where the bullet went in, not that the bullet blew up or over-expanded.

I would like to see what a 130 gr.VLD would do @ 3400 + fps
out of my 270 WBY magnum.
AMRA

So far with bergers, I've not seen anything otehr than caliber size entrance....

I shot 6 last year, my first year with bergers, and the entrance holes were tough to find actually. Critters just tumbled over though.

Only three mule deer so far w/115 gr VLD's from my .25-06 Rem 700. All dropped at the first shot, one required a finishing shot as the first shot was from above and shattered the spine, then exited out the side of the chest. Dropped that deer instantly of course.

175 yards, 230 yards and 400 yards. Only mule deer, not elk. So far I'm very pleased with the accuracy and instant effects.

Wicked on coyotes too...

How's your shoulder recovering?

Bullets do NOT knock animals, or move them. It's a simple rule of physics. The animal reacting to the hit (kicking up, back, forward or whatever) is what many guys think is a result of the bullet energy, and it isn't. If you hit them with a bowling ball at 2,000 fps, then maybe the critter will move, but not with any bullet. Good story though. I like clean quick kills. Flinch

You knocked the bait off my hook.

Here's an example of what Flinch and Mule Deer have described. This was a Buck that I shot a few years ago in thick timber with the old Barnes X bullet 150gr, 270win. He presented a neck shot at around 40 yds when he stopped briefly, framed between 2 trees. He DRT, dead instantly and you're looking at the entrance wound. My assumption was that the bullet must have hit a small tree limb before impact. I never entertained the idea that this superficial appearing wound was the result of bullet blow-up. I guess Muledeer's point about bone being blown back through the skin is also a possibility.

.................Well then,,,,give `em a try. Won`t know until you try them.

........Muley........Just now got off the phone with Rod (tech staff) at Berger.

For all "hunting" VLD bullets to effectively do their job, Berger recommends bullet impact speeds from 1800 fps (the absloute minimum) up to 3000 fps (maximum) at the most. Preferably according to Rod, 2800 to 2850 fps at impact would be the better maximum to insure that a VLD won`t blow up upon impact.

So if you want to use the 190 VLDs on elk, you are going to have to tone down that 300 RUM? of yours,,:D,,for the shorter ranged elk kills.

Gees! 3400 fps with a 190 gr VLD?.......Hells bells!....On my last elk hunt, my little 300 WSM Ruger compact using the 190 "hunting" VLD at approx 2840 fps MV at altitude with RL17 took a big bull elk at 328 yards. DRT through thickest part of the right shoulder bone with bullet fragmentation found below the hide on the opposite side. Massive internal damage.

Tough to find entrance holes? Caliber size, but go right where the crosshairs were when the gun went off and just brush the hair back a bit,never found one hard to find.

I've still yet to tumble one with a berger but they don't go far. Except those crainial shots..... One of the last took the ball joint of the onward shoulder out, heart toast, and managed 70 ish yards and flopped around on the ground for about a minute.

Rost495, By hard to find, I mean it wasn't possible to find the hole in the hide with a quick search. Skinned it out and this is the entrance wound under the hide. Literally could use the meat right next to the wound for first 2 to 3".



That bruise is about quarter sized and you can just make out the entrance hole in the middle of it.

I have to admit. I was pretty upset at a few here, for what I interpret as being a bit "personal" in their response to my comments, when I explicitly said, "my opinion".

So, today that got me thinking...

I figured, with comments people made in response to my comment, there could only be 2 reasons for this:

1. These people recieve benefits from this company for marketing their product, or...

2. This must have been hashed out previously.

So, I did a search. This was the first time I have ever researched this topic in the campfire. My comments the other day were in reference to an experience, and included pictures. I do not shoot these bullets, and have never read anything in the campfire from previous conversations.

Hmmm...seems others feel the same way.

CloudClimber (original post),

You asked for information on VLD bullets, and since you brought this up in the "Elk Hunting" forum, and even mentioned Elk in your post, I figured, or assumed you were looking for information in reference to using VLD's for hunting elk.

Here are some other threads on VLD's that I came up that discussed these bullets on the campfire. Some good, some bad. You read, and make a decision on that.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3524283/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1521162/1

The thread above contains an article in it. Pretty interesting read.

Mule Deer,

on the 4th page of the thread, top post, You write:

"Then you did not read the article very closely. While noting that some people had killed elk with VLD's, and quite handily, I suggested that we were pushing the envelope on 400-pound red stags. I also stated that they are best used on deer-sized game, in which category I'd place caribou. In fact, their extremely high BC would make them a fine caribou bullet, helping a lot in the wind.

My reservation in using them for caribou hunting would be the odd grizzly encounter. Indeed that would be a reservation about them for much hunting. I drew a ewe bighorn tag this year, and in the part of Montana I'll be hunting there are grizzlies, so the rifle will not be charged with VLD's. They would not be my choice as a bear bullet, or indeed an elk bullet for the kind of elk hunting I normally do. But I do plan to use them for some pronghorn and deer hunting this fall."

CloudClimber, in his initial post, asks information on VLD bullets, in an Elk forum (assuming to use on Elk), and instead of answering him with your opinion (above) you go after me as if I am an idiot for posting an experience my friend had, and provided a picture of as well, knowing good and well that other people have had similar experiences.

Like those have said about VLD's, that got a bit under my skin..

Again, I am sure VLD's will work 85% of the time. You can tell me all day about the many animals that were taken with them. My opinion is that there are other bullets out there that will work 95% of the time. That was my point from the beginning, but once I felt it got personal, I got a bit heated.

Here is another good read:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/berger-bullet-failure-short-range-51277/index4.html

and, if anybody would like some "scientific" information, on actual tests done, Barnes included VLD's in their study. Some will say it is skewed, but they could have a lawsuit on their hands if they were lying.

I am not a Barnes employee, or have ever received benefits from Barnes. Just research. I will take this "scientific" information over what someone says a bullet will do after it hits something the first "inch and a half".

Here are the tests:

http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/bullet-talk/lab-tests/

just my $.02....

joe

3307 fps average with a healthy dose of RL-25, NOT 3400. I apologize. I'm still real aprehensive about what would happen in a close range situation. Like the old saying, If it sounds too good to be true..... mtmuley

Well said Jolintaxidermy....

I guess I was being snippy and saying, I've only seen caliber size entry with TSX and Barnes. But they are not hard to find. Its taken me like 5 seconds to find the entry, but mostly because you rake the hair back in the area you aimed at and presto, there is a caliber size hole. ITs not like it dissappeared or got smaller or something. Most every berger I've shot into game that was not a head shot, looks just like yours. The exit holes have varied some, but I use the target and not the hunting version and am VERY happy so far.

Of course if it has to get done, and done right, every last time, its Barnes not Berger

Great points, jolintaxidermy.

Does anyone here have the UNS number for the jackets on these VLD hunting bullets?

What about the antimony numbers for the core on the Bergers?

With such a narrow recommended velocity band for acceptable terminal performance, some may suspect components could be on the soft side.