Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 338/06 and 450 Marlin in Africa?

If you were to plan a plains game hunt to include Antelope, Kudu,Zebra,Oryx,Eland and a Buffalo. Also consider that you own a Ruger MKII/Shilen 23" with Leupold 3-9 40mm and a Marlin 1895M with Leupold 1-4 20mm QD.....Would you consider these 2 as an acceptable combination and if so which bullets would you consider?

Just for conversation.

Currently the 338/06 shoots 210 TTSXs and the 450 shoots 300gr TSXs.

Robert

The .338/06 will be a little light for eland and not legal for buffalo in any country.

Most countries specify the .375 H&H as minimum while others say .375 caliber and above and stipulate a certain power level in Ftlbs (actually kjoules) and the level is usually in the level of 4,000 to 4,200 ftlbs of ME. Your .450 Marlin might make that level but there are much better choices for buffalo.

I think you;d be well off to sell both of the rifles and buy yourself a nice .375 H&H for Africa. They don't call it the Queen of medium bores for nothing.

The .338-06 would me excellent for plains game..neither would be my choice for Buffalo..the .375 is the surest bet, eith H&H or Ruger...

Oh you COULD make the 450 work on buff. Take a Barnes Buster or a Belt Mtn. punch bullet and load it to around 2000 fps. As long as the shots were close[100-150 yds], the 450 would work on plains game. I used a 45-70 GG, in the limpopo, in 2008, and it did just fine on 7 head of plains game.

Having said all that, I agree with Ingwe. If buff is on the menu, just take a 375 H&H, and be done with it.


maddog

+1 to the above. The 338/06 is an adequate round for the plains game you list, though deopending where you go, you might have some issues with trajectory. But it will not be legal anywhere for buff. The marlin, with a TSX, at close range will certainly kill a buff - could also probably be made legal. However, you are putting a lot of limitations on your shot before you pull the trigger. I can only say putting the sights on a buffalo for the first time is not the same as shooting a whitetail. Adding the distraction of a marginal caliber is not likely to make that shot any easier.

A final issue is your PH. Part of a successful hunt is having a PH who develops confidence in his client. Showing up with a well accepted caliber which you can handle with great confidence is a great first step in that direction. Hard to beat a .375 for an easily carried one-rifle solution to a buff and plains game hunt.

While not familiar with the 450 M I took the exact 338-06 along with 375 H&H for buff. The 210 TTSX took down zebra, waterbuck, sable, wildebeest and bush pig with one shot and all but sable exited. Great plains game combo.

The best penetrating expanding bullet I have used in the 450 is the 300 grain Nosler Partition, which may no longer be made. This partition only opens up to 50-55 caliber and really goes deep. I haven't shot a 350-405 grain expanding bullet that penetrates better. The 300 grain X bullet has a huge hollowpoint and doesn't penetrate like it's spitzer cousins.

There are some bonded 400 grain bullets that I haven't used that might be worth a try. If you want to use a sold I have used 450 grain FN Hard Casts that have penetrated through 17" of spruce and 20" of wet newsprint. With a big enough meplat they should be able to break some bone along the way. The Crater and Crater lights seem to have a good reputation. These solids don't make a huge wound channel however.

While I think a 450 or 45-70 would work, I'd feel more comfortable with a rifle with more horsepower. For example in side by side comparisons my 358 Norma has a lot more oomph on impact.

Thanks for the input.

If I were to take the 338/06 for Plains Game or my 350RM (both Ruger MKIIs) and assume that I will stay with Barnes as they are all that I load....which bullet would you choose.

The 450.... I know this won't be popular but I'm personally more comfortable and can provide much quicker follow ups with a shorty Lever than any other action type. this is why I was considering the Marlin for the Buffalo. I can tolerate large amounts of recoil well but a long unwieldy bolt rifle up close concerns me. Any suggestions?

Robert

Use a shorter, handier bolt rifle?

I broke the front shoulder of a wounded buffalo with a Texas heart shot. 450 grain flat point solid at 2250 fps muzzle velocity.

I would not like to try that with a .450 Marlin and a lighter bullet at lower velocity.

My .458 has a 22" barrel. I never had a problem with it being handy.

Also I don't know where you're hunting but if it's possible to encounter a buffalo while you're out hunting plains game, forget the cartridges you mentioned and get a .375.

Indy makes a really good point. In dangerous game concessions, I am much more comfortable with a rifle able to deal with any issues we run into - not just the animal we are trailing at that particular moment.

In most of Namibia and South Africa you can tailor a rifle to specific game to a much greater extent than in country where large DG is on the list. However, even there I always had my heaviest rifle in hand because one never knew when the springbuck stalk would turn into a shot at gemsbok. In the Caprivi, my .375 suddenly seemed a very reasonable rifle for a morning warthog hunt as we picked our way around a cow elephant herd.

Very good points.

I've never hunted Africa, and heck, maybe I never will. Who knows?

Always figured that with the cost of the hunt, air fare and taxidermy, a decent rifle for the hunt didn't have to be a huge expense. Figured I could pick up a good used .375 or something, top it with a decent scope, shoot it enough to get familiar with it, hunt. Then on return to home it could be sold if I didn't want it for anything else.

However... I went and found a nice used .375 Number One that I couldn't resist, and later learned it was one heck of a bear rifle, and so there it is. If I ever do get to Africa, at least I've already got a .375, albeit a single shot.

Regards, Guy

I guess I am at a loss wondering how a .375 shooting a 300 grain bullet at 2400-2500 is the holly grail, but a .450 Marlin shooting a 300 grain X bullet at 2,200-2,300 fps is suddenly inadequate for anything but small plains game. 200 fps difference isn't squat in the hunting fields at the ranges buffalo or any other animal is taken in Africa. Sure bigger is better to a point, but I wouldn't call the .450 being handicapped by any stretch. I haven't been to Africa, but I have seen a lot of big animals taken with .45-70's. LOTS of cape buffalo have been taken with that caliber as well. Never seen a problem with the caliber when mixing it up with buff. There are tons of videos out that have hunters shooting buff with .45-70's and .450 Marlins. They die just as quick as with any .375 or .458. The PH's that I have seen interviewed echo what I am saying. They are just an animal. You split the heart and lungs and they die. You have a bigger chance of dying in the airplane flying over there, or catching some disease, than you do getting charged by a buff. Even the PH's that have hunted them for many years have only been charged a time or two. Pretty darn slim odds that anything will go sideways. I say, take the .450 and leave everything else home. It will do it all in spades with the right load, as long as you can shoot it well. It is hard to beat the fast cycle time of a lever as well. Flinch

Flinch,

Thanks. I tend to stay out of arguments when I don't have personal experience to back up my point so rather than point out exactly what you stated I let it go.

I will speak with my outfitter and I'm sure the 450 will make the trip....possibly along side another .458 with a Lott more oomph....well see.

Robert

I like the 338-06 a lot. I'm not familiar at all with the 450 Marlin. I'd submit a couple of things regarding both of these cartridges.

- Fairly unlilkely to happen, but if you and your ammo get seperated, you'll be hosed. I seriously doubt any gun shop, anywhere in Africa, will have either cartridge available on the shelf.

- With regard to your Marlin 1895, check the regs in the country you're considering. There are several that do not allow lever actions (for whatever reason). The legalities are definitely something you should inquire about.

- In terms of the 450 Marlin, if it were me, I'd look at something that's more proven in Africa (for either PG and certainly for DG). For one thing, you're travelling a long way and spending a lot of money. Why use a marginal cartridge on a hunt like that? In addition, a lot of African countries not only have minimum caliber requirements, there are also energy minimums that you have to comply with, especially for DG. I'd be skeptical if the 450 Marlin makes the grade energy-wise.

When you get to a chronograph you might find 2200-2300 fps in a .45 marlin is a bit optimistic.
If you look up the formula for computing energy , you'll note that energy varies arithmetically with bullet weight,but geometrically (the square of the velocity) with velocity.Everything else being essentially equal,velocity can make a big difference.

Im getting 2,215 with 4227 and the 300gr BUT i will have to move up to the 400 to get a BC over .3 and ill be in the 1,800-1,900 range then.

Robert

Bruzer:

Have done Namibia PG three times with the fourth coming up this July. 45-70 and 450 Marlin every time. Tried 300gr cast, 300gr JHPs, 300gr Nosler Partitions, 330gr Barnes Banded Solids, 350gr Hornady JFP, Rem 405gr and Cast Performance 405 WFPGC. All at max loads per published tables.

Best so far have been the 350 JFP's. They were originally designed for the 458 Win Mag. Second is a tie between the Nosler and the Cast Performance.

This year I'm taking a mix of Nozler 300gr Partitions at 1900fps for my girlfriend (she shot her first animal ever last year there (Gemsbok) with that load) Some more of the 350 Hornady's at 2000fps, the 405 Cast Performance at 1850fps and going to try some 425gr Crater Lites at about 1800.

Though I haven't shot a Cape Buffalo yet - I would be confident with the 350 Hornady's and Cast Performance. Let's face it - the PH is going to back you up even if you use a 577 T Rex. The point being, if it's legal in the country you are hunting, the PH is confident in your abilities to place the bullet correctly and agrees to take you...do it.